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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    Big if true.
     
  2. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    President Trump is proposing to allow US companies to bid for contracts with the NHS as part of a trade package to be negotiated with the UK after Brexit.

    Obviously, this is quite a lot different than insisting that the UK dismantle or "sell off" the NHS to the US or to US corporations. The latter is not what he is suggesting be discussed as part of trade negotiations between the UK and the US, and only people who are either ignorant about what he is asking for or who are lying straight through their teeth are saying otherwise.

    Donald Trump sparks massive NHS row as he says health service must be on the table in Brexit trade talks

    But Tory leadership contenders insisted they would protect the NHS during talks over a transatlantic trade deal. And opposition parties insisted that cutting a deal with Mr Trump would mean "selling off the NHS".

    Speaking alongside Theresa May in London today, the President said: "I think everything with a trade deal is on the table. When you're dealing in trade everything is on the table so NHS or anything else, a lot more than that, but everything will be on the table, absolutely."

    US healthcare firms are keen to compete for privatised NHS contracts on the same basis as British and EU companies do.

    Left-wingers fear that will mean more parts of the health service being operated by private companies. Labour's Jon Ashworth said: “US corporations taking over our NHS is a nightmare scenario. The Tories appear happy to give Trump what he wants, and some want to offer up our NHS to get the No Deal Brexit they are campaigning for."​

    This is 'Operation Fear', at it again. What a bunch of relentlessly aggressive, unconscionable liars these people are. Of course we have our own rather sizeable batch of these same sorts of people here in the US, I am sad to say.
     
  3. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Labour beats the Brexit Party by 683 votes to hold onto the MP seat of Petersborough. This has traditionally been a swing seat that has gone back and forth between Labour and the Tories. But in this byelection, the Tories were not competitive.

    Peterborough byelection result: Labour scrapes past Brexit party to hold seat

    Labour has held on to the marginal seat of Peterborough, overturning predictions that the contest could deliver a first byelection victory for Nigel Farage’s Brexit party.

    The victorious Labour candidate, Lisa Forbes, told her supporters after the count early on Friday: “Tonight’s result is significant because it shows that the politics of division will never win.”

    Forbes won 10,484 votes, beating the Brexit party’s Mike Greene, who took 9,801 votes, a margin of 683. The Conservatives were beaten into third place with 7,243 votes. Turnout was 48%.​

    This was interesting for several reasons.

    First, this was the first election for an actual seat in Parliament after the Tories abandoned their supporters by approving the extension of Brexit until October 31. In case there was any lingering doubt about the sustainability of the Conservative party with them engaging in this kind of treachery, surely that was put to bed permanently here tonight. The Tories will lose to somebody in the next general election if they do not get a real Brexit done beforehand. It could be the Brexit Party or it could be Labour. They may still lose even if they get Brexit done at this point, but if they continue on their current path, their party's demise is all but a certainty.

    Next, the polls had been steadily predicting that the Brexit party was going to win. So, the polls were wrong, yet again.

    Also, the Labour Party candidate, Lisa Forbes had been publicly supportive of some rather cringeworthy anti-Semitic remarks, which one might have expected would hurt her in this election. Instead, it seems that they may have actually helped her to turn out the Labour vote needed to get her over the top.

    Wow. These Labour party people appear to have a great deal in common with the Democrat left here in this country.
     
  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The timetable for the Tory Contest to be the next Prime Minister of the UK is as follows:

    When is the Tory leadership election? Timetable in full for race to be next PM

    Friday 7 June: Theresa May resigns (This has been done)

    Monday 10 June: Nominations close

    Thursday 13 June: First ballot of Tory MPs - They vote for their chosen candidate and the person with the fewest votes is automatically eliminated. Also eliminated are any candidates who get 16 or fewer Tory MPs backing them - 5% of the Parliamentary party.

    Sunday 16 June: First TV debate - Channel 4 planned to hold a 90-minute debate at 6.30pm between the remaining candidates at this point. It was not immediately clear all candidates would take part.

    Tuesday 18 June: Second ballot of Tory MPs - This time, anyone with 32 or fewer Tory MPs backing them (10% of the party) is automatically eliminated too. By this point the field was expected to have narrowed to a much smaller number of candidates.

    Wednesday 19 June: More MP ballots - Ballot 3 is 3pm to 5pm on Wednesday. Ballot 4 is 10am to noon on Thursday. Ballot 5 is 3.30pm to 5.30pm on Thursday. If a sixth or seventh ballot is needed it could trail on into the night, or into Friday. Once there are only two candidates on the ballot, the full vote by Tory members can begin.

    Saturday 22 June: Votes by members begin - The Tories' 160,000 members spend a month deciding who will lead their party - and thus be Prime Minister. Members take part in a postal ballot, with a nationwide tour and several hustings by the candidates expected. There is no electronic voting. Hustings are expected in every single region of the UK and are expected to be open to the press. The BBC announced plans for several debates.

    Monday 22 July: Next Prime Minister confirmed

    Shortly thereafter, they all go on vacation until September. Yay!
     
  6. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Mojo, do you live in the UK? The only person I can imagine to be as interested in the UK's nosedive is Uncle Putie.
     
    biff17 likes this.
  7. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The establishment globalist left's nosedive, you mean.
     
  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Now this is smart politics. It is the angle that Theresa May should have taken from the very start.

    Boris Johnson is telling the EU that they will not get the £39 Billion until they agree to a Brexit deal that the UK likes. Which clearly does not describe the current Brexit deal that the EU leaders have consistently insisted will not be renegotiated.

    Boris ‘EU not getting the £39Bn until they come and do a Brexit deal’

    Boris Johnson has promised Britain will KEEP the £39 billion demanded by the EU unless Michel Barnier comes back to the negotiating table, if he became Prime Minister.

    Speaking to The Sunday Times, Mr Johnson said: “I think our friends and partners need to understand that the money is going to be retained until such time as we have greater clarity about the way forward. I always thought it was extraordinary that we should agree to write that entire cheque before having a final deal. In getting a good deal, money is a great solvent and a great lubricant."​

    A couple of observations. First, Johnson is not endorsing the idea that the £39 Billion should never be repaid, which is smart. A substantial portion of that money is owed by the UK under any reasonable assessment of these amounts. But as long as the EU withholds its cooperation in negotiating a reasonable deal, then it is very smart for the UK to withhold payment of these amounts to help "lubricate" their willingness to negotiate a reasonable deal.

    Second, he does want to do a deal with the EU.
     
  9. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    I think a "certain group" of people are very invested in it and gush about the glorious future of the UK on their Discord servers. They view it as a pilot program for where they want to take the USA, which is how a bunch of Americans are so attentive and invested.
     
  10. dmoneybangbang

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    Lol. It’s the EUs fault that the Brexit folks can’t get their **** together.
     
  11. dmoneybangbang

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    I sure hope not. Texas has done very well with globalization and it’s worrying to see a bunch of losers trying to change that.
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    1922 Committee confirms 10 candidates on ballot for first leadership election vote

    Cheryl Gillan, joint acting chairman of the 1922 Committee executive, is now reading out the names of the candidates who have had their nomination accepted. They are:
    1. Michael Gove
    2. Matthew Hancock
    3. Mark Harper
    4. Jeremy Hunt
    5. Sajid Javid
    6. Boris Johnson
    7. Andrea Leadsom
    8. Esther McVey
    9. Dominic Raab
    10. Rory Stewart
    Gillan says there are 10 valid nominations. The official 1922 Committee hustings will be tomorrow and on Wednesday, and the first ballot will be held on Thursday morning. The result will be announced at around 1pm on Thursday.
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    UK, South Korea agree on post-Brexit trade deal rollover

    Britain today agreed on an in-principle deal with South Korea to roll over the trade relationship it currently has with the country as a member of the EU, U.K. International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said.

    The U.K. is attempting to replicate the EU’s some 40 existing trade agreements in case it exits the bloc without a Brexit deal. It has so far signed 12, including with Switzerland, and Iceland and Norway — the South Korean one is the first to be signed in Asia.
     
  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Bwahaha. This is just nutty. Emmanuel Macron is insisting that the UK retaining the £39 Billion "divorce payment" to the EU will plunge the UK economy into turmoil. By keeping an extra £39 Billion.

    It clearly appears that Boris has struck a nerve.

    Emmanuel Macron warns Boris Johnson UK economy will be plunged into turmoil if he withholds £39bn divorce payment

    Emmanuel Macron has warned Boris Johnson that Britain's economy will be downgraded and plunged into turmoil if the UK withholds the £39 billion Brexit divorce payment from Brussels.

    Mr Johnson used his first interview of the Tory leadership campaign to warn that he would "retain" the divorce bill until he got a better deal with the EU. He said in an interview with The Sunday Times that the money would be a "great lubricant" to persuade European nations to reopen talks on the Irish backstop and the terms of a future trade deal.​
     
  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Labour and the Remainers have failed to pass a motion to take over Parliament that would have been a binding vote that blocks the prorogueing of Parliament and that would have prevented the UK from leaving with no deal without another vote by Parliament on this question before they do.

    Brexit: MPs lose vote in bid to prevent future Tory PM forcing through no-deal

    Opposition MPs have lost critical vote on a bid to prevent a future Tory prime minister from forcing through a no-deal Brexit.

    Labour introduced a motion paving the way for parliament to block a chaotic Brexit by seizing control of the Commons timetable on 25 June. But MPs rejected the cross-party effort by 309 votes to 298, in a blow to hopes of preventing a Brexiteer prime minister from taking the UK out of the EU without a deal in October.

    MPs reject motion to block no deal Brexit leaving option open for new PM to prorogue Parliament


    MPs have voted against a motion aimed at blocking any new prime minister from proroguing Parliament in order to ensure a no deal Brexit. MPs rejected motion to give them control of the Commons agenda on June 25, as part of efforts to block a no-deal Brexit, by 309 votes to 298 - majority 11.

    Labour had tabled the motion aimed at paving the way for Parliament to block a no deal Brexit and introduce a "safety valve" into the process. With a number of Tory leadership candidates refusing to rule out proroguing Parliament in order to force our EU departure on October 31, shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said the Opposition's actions were to "make sure Parliament cannot be locked out".​

    Brexit: MPs reject Labour plan for no-deal vote

    Backing the motion, Conservative ex-minister Sir Oliver Letwin said the case for ensuring Parliament had a "decisive vote" on the next PM's Brexit plan ahead of the 31 October deadline transcended party politics.

    Given that leaving without a deal remains the default legal position, he said it was "perfectly possible" for the next PM to usher in a no-deal exit by "simply doing nothing" at all.

    With Parliament not due to sit for most of August or September, due to the six-week summer holidays and four-week party conference season, he said time was limited and it was critical MPs acted now.

    "Although it isn't a fast-burning fuse, it is a bomb the fuse of which is already burning. If we don't put the fuse out now, we won't be able to disassemble the bomb in September or October."​

    This was a super-sneaky backdoor attempt by the die-hard remainers to take control of Parliament using some very dubious parliamentary procedures. As usual, Speaker Bercow was there to help them with their efforts, but the vote ultimately failed.

    It was in many ways an attempt to repeat the Letwin Cooper maneuver from last March, when the extension request to June 30 was approved by Parliament, which later led to the current EU proposed extension to October 31, which required the UK to participate in the EU elections.

    This is a very big deal. As discussed in the articles quoted above, the UK Parliament will be out of session for nearly all of August and September and will be busy with the Prime Minister stuff through July. Prior to October, this was probably the last chance for the opponents of Brexit to do anything here.

    Of course everyone knows that there will be more devious behavior and dirty tricks by the Remainers before this is finished. But for those people who are holding out hope of the new Tory PM battening down the hatches and leading the UK out of the EU basically by running out the clock, this was a very big win.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Results from the 1st round of voting (313 Tory MP's only).

    Boris Johnson - 114
    Jeremy Hunt - 43
    Michael Grove - 37
    Dominic Raab - 27
    Sajid Javid - 23
    Matt Hancock - 20
    Rory Steward - 19
    Andrea Leadson - 11 (out)
    Mark Harper - 10 (out)
    Ester McVey - 9 (out)

    313/3 = 104.3. So, anyone who gets to 105 votes is through to the final two, unless some people withdraw their support later. So it appears to be a contest between Boris Johnson and one other person from the rest of this list to determine who will face off against Boris in the final round.

    Everyone needs to keep in mind that the final two are put to the membership of the entire paid Tory party membership, estimated to be about 160,000 people. This group appears to be more supportive of Brexit on average than the Tories in Parliament are, so that could make this interesting.

    Seven candidates move forward to the second round, but in order to survive that round, a candidate has to get at least 33 votes, which only three candidates did in the first round. That vote will be on Tuesday, June 18.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ory-mps-start-voting-for-new-leader-live-news
     
  18. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Sir Oliver Letwin - the Tory MP who led the way in the takeover of Parliament in March of this year in passing a motion to request an extension of Brexit until June 30, 2019 (by a one vote margin) - is now stating that all of the options to stop a no deal Brexit in Parliament have been exhausted.

    Parliament out of options to stop no-deal Brexit, says Letwin

    A senior Tory MP behind cross-party efforts to block a no-deal Brexit has said parliament has now run out of options for preventing the UK from crashing out of the EU after the defeat of Labour’s motion.

    Oliver Letwin, a former cabinet minister, was among the signatories to a Labour-led attempt to tie the next prime minister’s hands by ruling out no deal. It was defeated by 11 votes after eight Labour MPs voted with the government and 13 abstained, cancelling out 10 Conservative rebels who voted with Labour. The defeat means parliament has now exhausted the options for preventing a no-deal exit, according to Letwin. “We have run out of all the possibilities that any of us can at the moment think of,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

    The interviewer Nick Robinson pointed out that MPs could not block a no-deal exit happening by default if no legislation was put before parliament.

    Personally, I am not altogether convinced this is correct. The Remainers still have Speaker John Bercow on their side, and he has said publicly over the last few weeks that Parliament will be given a say over this, although it is not really clear within existing rules or procedures how that might be accomplished.

    But since it is up to Bercow to make determinations about the rules of parliamentary procedure, and he is pretty clearly ready to do whatever he can to tip the scales against Brexit, it seems to me that in order for Letwin's prediction to be correct, they will first need to get rid of Bercow in order to be able to be confident about that outcome.
     
  19. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Letwin went on to say (from the link above):

    He played down the prospect of Tory MPs voting down their own government to prevent no deal. Letwin said: “Evidently that’s not something any of us want to do.” He added: “I’m not confident as things stand that the current Labour leadership would know how to solve this crisis either.”​

    And former Tory and Remainer MP Nick Boles commented as follows:

    The former Conservative MP Nick Boles, who flew back to the UK to vote with Labour on Wednesday, also conceded that opponents of a no-deal departure were fast running out of options, apart from a confidence vote to bring down the government.

    He said: “No-deal Brexit on 31 October is back to being a racing certainty. It is very hard to see where any further legislative opportunities will come from. So it’s now a question of politics – specifically whether a PM pursuing a no-deal Brexit can command and sustain the confidence of the House of Commons.”​

    Again, there will be more dirty tricks and all the stops will surely be pulled by the time this is done. But it is nice to see the options for the opposition to Brexit being reduced in any case.
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Current UK Chancellor Philip Hammond says he will not serve as Chancellor under Boris Johnson if he becomes the next Prime Minister.

    Phillip Hammond REJECTS Boris as PM - won’t serve as chancellor

    Mr Hammond said he would not serve under a prime minister who was prepared to leave the EU without a deal, as proposed by Mr Johnson and other contenders to become the next leader of the Conservative Party. Mr Hammond, speaking to reporters on the sidelines of a meeting of EU finance ministers in Luxembourg on Friday, also warned whoever succeeds Theresa May not to withhold Britain’s dues to the bloc. He said: “I don’t think this is about personalities, it’s about policies.
    Hammond is a Remainer and is certain not to be asked to stay on as Chancellor by Boris Johnson if he wins, so this announcement is probably a pretty smart move on his part.

    Bye bye, Philip. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
     

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