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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. dmoneybangbang

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    Brexiters... meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
     
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  2. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    You're like a person that spews total BS then tries to predict the future they were just caught out being totally ignorant on. It's a theme.

    You guys are focused on FTAs when actually dropping tariff barriers on goods you have NO need to protect is the great benefit here.
     
  3. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Seriously, you're accusing everyone else of being dense?

    So basically you are proposing that all foreign countries are exempt of UK laws. So UK companies will be at a literal competitive disadvantage since the rest of the world can apparently not only trade with zero tariffs but are also not subject to any UK regulations. The UK will be chained to EU regulatory alignment but apparently the US will be entirely exempt from any rules and can just trade whatever they want without regard to the rules and regulations of the UK. Apparently in your world, countries only enforce laws on domestic companies and let foreign companies just trade whatever they want.

    This is why you have FTAs. They're comprehensive agreements specifically designed to address not only things like quotas and tariffs but also regulatory harmony across countries. But hey what do I know?
     
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  4. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    "US competitive advantage on food is erased if US companies are bound by EU rules."

    You thought you knew this. It was completely false. If the UK dropped tariffs unilaterally, they don't need FTAs to drop prices for their consumers. This gives american goods an even bigger advantage over the EU goods. You seem to think USA producers will want to punish the UK because you do, actually they want to sell to the UK now that the UK will free itself from the protectionist customs union.
     
  5. malakas

    malakas Member

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    What?
    How will american goods have bigger advantage than EU goods?

    According to the WTO rules that the UK will be forced to trade with, you can't just drop tariffs on one country you will have to drop for everyone.
    WTO rules mean each member must grant the same market access to all other members – except developing countries and those that have free trade agreements.

    So USA and EU will not be able to drop tarriffs for the UK and it will force the brits to trade their meat with 40% tariffs, but they will be able to sell their own to the UK with 0% tarriffs by your logic.

    Is the UK insane?
    Is their goal to destroy their own agriculture just to bring more profits to america and the eu?

    Their farmers will not be able to export at all while facing competition inside their own country from americans and eu farmers who have 0 tariffs.

    You think that only the US wants to protect their own economy and the UK is only there to serve america's interests?

    They may be stupid but they are not suicidal.
     
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  6. dmoneybangbang

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    You are simply not understanding the issue. The EU is the UKs biggest trading partner by a country mile. You seem to think that the U.K. will be able to have it’s cake and eat to by dropping out of the EU customs union while simultaneously being able to enjoy its trade with EU and forging new deals. Plus the WTO rules.

    Also what the hell about U.K. exports? Are they just going to roll over for foreign imports?
     
    #2026 dmoneybangbang, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  7. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Anyway this is all for nothing. It has been clarified what Johnson did.

    He dropped the promise for regulatory alignment from the WTA and put it in the political declaration.
    The WTA is legally binding but the political declaration is not.


    They can vote for it now, and after the elections the UK can say, we have changed our mind.

    The EU knows it but it has decided to kick the can down the road. If they want to reach a FTA they will have to have regulatory allignment anyway, they believe.

    For this reason many hard Brexiters of the ERG (total 28) have decided to vote in favour- because it is a harder Brexit than May's (Though it is basically giving up on NI which May did not).

    But also for this reason Labour and Tory soft Leavers who did vote for May are likely to now vote against.

    In the end as things are now Johnson doesn't have the numbers needed to pass it.

    The more scrutiny is put on this detail the less likely it will become for those who want guarantees on wages, worker rights and environmental laws to vote for this WTA.
     
  8. malakas

    malakas Member

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  9. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    remainers should be thrilled with this deal, makes the UK a slave state/colony to the EU
     
  10. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    What are they now??
     
  11. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    ...nobody's suicidal until they're dead.:);):D
     
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  12. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  13. malakas

    malakas Member

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    As of this moment Johnson has 10 Labour MPs on board.

    If every single one of the Tories and ex-Tories vote for his deal he is at +2.

    It will go down to the wire.
    Gauke, Boles from the ex-Tories have already said they are on board.

    Who may be willing to spoil the party for Johnson?
    Either a fundamental fanatical ERG or an ex- Tory who doesn't give a damn anymore because he is leaving anyway. For example Grieves.

    Or maybe Rory Stewart who is trying to be the next mayor of London.
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    That is pretty close to right. The main thing is that the UK will leave with its sovereignty established. The details of how it relates with the EU, the US and the other countries of the world will change going forward and will continue to evolve as long as the UK an independent country. The same goes for us.

    In any case, from the perspective of most people supporting Brexit, the details of the short term (read temporary) trade arrangements are not actually critical. What is important is that they will now be able to make these decisions for themselves, even if they have to wait a few years for it to be politically and diplomatically the right time for them to do that.
     
  15. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    The last time I was in London, there was a line for EU passports and one for others. Will that still be a thing post leave?
     
  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Probably after a while it will be British Passports. The blue ones.
     
  17. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The pre-game vote counting is under way for the vote on Boris Johnson's Brexit deal. According to pretty much everyone, it is likely to be a squeaker.

    Former Tory PM David Cameron thinks it could pass. But he could not constrain himself from referring to the current Prime Minister as a 'Greased piglet' while offering his remarks.

    'Greased piglet' Boris Johnson could pass deal, says David Cameron

    “The thing about the greased piglet is that he manages to slip through other people’s hands where mere mortals fail.” That was the optimistic assessment of Boris Johnson’s chances of getting his Brexit deal through parliament by former prime minister David Cameron on Thursday.

    Cameron said he would back the deal, were he still an MP, though he would have preferred one that guaranteed a closer relationship with the EU and that would keep the UK within the customs union.

    During a talk to promote his book, For The Record, in North Yorkshire on Thursday evening that was repeatedly interrupted by protesters, he called on the current crop of parliamentarians to get behind the deal. “The country voted to leave the European Union, the best way to leave is with a deal, I think a no-deal Brexit would be bad for the economy and bad for the union. I think it’s much better to leave with a deal, and I think Boris has done well to achieve that deal. I hope he’ll get it through parliament, I suspect he will but it will be tight.”​
     
  18. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    Not necessarily. The UK changed the rules and are allowing some non-EU countries to use E-Gates. US passports can now use the e-gate lines at Heathrow. I think in total there are seven non-EU countries that can use E-Gates now. It seems reasonable that the UK could just allow the EU to continue using the E-Gates given that they can now accept non-EU passports.
     
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  19. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I was there quite recently. As I recall, there was a line for a selection of western and industrialized countries -- the US, European countries, Japan, Canada, etc. And then a line for the rest. I don't remember there being a line dedicated to EU countries.
     
  20. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    This is a new thing. It was just implemented in May. The E-Gates used to only be for EU countries.
     
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