The flaw in your logic is that Communist governments use the threat of violence and imprisonment to take property from property owners while in a capitalist society the only people for which the government uses the threat of violence and imprisonment are the ones who break the law like stealing property from someone else. I know you are a socialist but do you actually support communism? Would you prefer the USA to be a communist society?
I guess you've never heard of taxes or eminent domain. Is that not in the Bible? I know you're a capitalist pig so you support the social Darwinism inherent in capitalism but do you support Nazis and white supremacists? Would you prefer the USA to be an all white society? So easy. Believe me. Easy.
No, the only ones in communism that suffer from the law under threat of violence and imprisonment are those that break the law. Those who give up the means of production as the law requires don't face violence or threat of imprisonment. I don't support communism, but I also don't support making stuff up about communism and attaching any negative aspects people want to attach to it whether or not it's true.
Different systems take different amounts of freedom/goods/capital from those living within the system, and thus are immoral to different degrees. The less taken by the system, the less immoral. An ideal system would take nothing from the people, and would exist merely to protect the people from outside threats and from unwanted contacts with each other, allowing any and all voluntary interactions within the system. Such a system would be on the strongest moral footing. Communism is at the other end of the spectrum, and you are only allowed what the collective provides to you. Not only is it a morally bankrupt economic system, but by its nature it must take away your freedom in order to enforce the economic model espoused.
Again, Communism is a amoral economic system that states who controls the means of production and how it's distributed. That doesn't mean one can believe it's a stupid idea. I think it's not a pragmatic idea myself. I understand that capitalism has been SIGNIFICANTLY more successful. But someone who is a modern pro-communist doesn't tell me much about their moral principles. They would disagree with you on your definition but I personally agree that communism eventually does entail authoritarian take over of property. A communist supporter would disagree with our notions and they are probably wrong but their belief in a certain economic system tells me nothing about how they perceive other types of people or races or religions etc. For Nazis, I can safely assume their moral principles in regards to other races, religions and ethnicities.
I'm not a supporter of communism. I think we all disagree with communism. But the system itself isn't violent like that of the Nazis.
They are the two main groups involved as far as media attention and coverage. They both benefitted from the media attention they received. Where did I say anyone loves antifa? I have said before that Nazis are on a different level than Antifa or a vast majority of protest groups. I don't particularly like either group, but my dislike for Antifa is primarily because they tend to bring more attention to the group they protest.
Charlottesville had nothing to do with Communism, so why has this thread turned into a debate about it? Relevant topics include the issue of white nationalist sentiment, how to treat confederate monuments, how to confront racism, how to protect nonviolent protesters when a melee breaks out. The economic theories of Karl Marx and the historical record of Communist states is not one of them.
CW, I can always count on you for a lunatic fringe post. Thanks for not disappointing!! That said, I do not and have never supported Nazis, white supremacist, or an "all white" America. There are not many who do believe in an "all white" America. You might realize that if you step out of your echo chamber for a little while. I also have no problem with paying my fair share of taxes or even having welfare as safety net. Welfare should not be a way of life. It should be a hand up, not a hand out. I do believe in a society with equal opportunity. Socialism and the more extreme form of it, communism, are all about equal outcomes rather than equal opportunity. Would you prefer the USA to be a communist nation? If CW was in charge, what would your America look like if you could have your way?
I laughed. "My fair share", "hand up, not a hand out", "equal outcomes rather than equal opportunity". You're like a walking Republican billboard of ridiculous slogans that don't mean anything. In my America nobody with easily treatable health problems dies because they don't have health insurance and nobody goes bankrupt because they can't afford care. In my America kids don't receive a vastly different quality of education depending on the neighborhood they live in. In my America we don't spend more money on defense than the next 7 nations in the world combined. In my America we don't allow drug companies to gouge consumers and we leverage the buying power of the federal government to reduce drug costs for Medicare patients and seniors. In my America we mandate 3 weeks paid vacation and paid maternity/paternity leave. Also in my America we don't need a border wall because we verify identities when people are hired and nobody who can't work is going to be here very long. I'd also change citizenship laws to require at least one parent to be an American in order to have a child born as an American. I could go on but most importantly in my America we don't provide ridiculous bumper sticker slogans like yours as a deflection to solving complex problems. Also, I don't know if you've noticed but the US is out of step with most of the 1st world nations on many ideas so you should probably keep that in mind when you start talking about the lunatic fringe.
The white nationalists are choosing it increasingly as their boogeyman. I guess only b/c they are using the Nazi playbook from the 1920's and 1930's. Bizarre anachronism, but so is their movement.
One of the major violent groups involved in creating what happened in Charlottesville was a radical Communist group, the reason we are discussing it is because we have people defending that group and Communism as a whole.....probably becuase it is too close o their own political beliefs for them to feel they can denounce it....instead they post puff pieces that hail them as heroes and outright deny that they are a Communist group to begin with...which is patently false. Anyway, that's what causes the discussion.
I don't care about defending Communism because it is irrelevant even if I agreed that Antifa can be accurately labeled as Communist and even if I agreed that Communism sucks. A defensible actions is a defensible action, irrespective of how we judge the moral character of the people involved or what identity group we want to box them in. If you have a problem with their actions last weekend, by all means express it. But "They are Communists, therefore you can't defend what they did" is not a valid argument.
They are a VIOLENT Communist group.....I see you left that part out. As to their actions last weekend, of course I have a problem with them, as should any decent person. They caused violence where none previously existed and that escalation led to someone dying. You may dislike those they attacked, hell I dislike the people they attacked, but it doesn't justify their actions. Add in the fact that they have a long history of violence and no one should be defending them.....and yet we see quite a bit of it. So instead of your strawman BS, how about reading what I'm actually saying? When it comes to them being Communists, yes that is an awful and violent ideology....just like Nazism is. That said, if they weren't violent, it wouldn't be a problem. I don't blame people for having "wrong" opinions, I blame them for their actions. Nazis have the right to think whatever they want to think, Communists have the right to think whatever they want to think. IMO they are awful for following those ideologies, but I don't really care until they begin to be violent. If AntiFa was a non-violent group, I wouldn't care. That said, anyone that is informed, that has a fully functional brain knows that they are a violent radical group with a long history of attacking innocents in the street along with anyone who doesn't agree with them or who they perceive as people who don't completely agree with them.
And this is at an event where there was practically no opposition. People are still getting arrested all over the place because they simply can't refrain from being violent even without opposition. As always, when they can't find anyone opposed to them to fight, they'll just pick any random person to attack or they'll attack cops. Also, very little of this is actually AntiFa, just really stupid regular leftists worked up into a frenzy. While you are correct that most of these people aren't AntiFa, they are just "normal" hate filled leftists worked up into a frenzy, but you are laughably misinformed if you think that AntiFa isn't against police. They see police as Nazis....you know, just like they see anyone that isn't a communist.
