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The Counter-Protesters of Charlottesville

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by durvasa, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I know 35% of the country probably believe that an economic system and BLM are morally equivalent to Nazism which in itself is a passive way of being apologetic to Nazism by euphanizing it.
     
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  2. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    He would probably tell you that the number is 62,984,825....the number of people who voted for Donald Trump for president.....plus pretty much anyone who disagrees with anything he says on pretty much any issue.
     
  3. Major

    Major Member

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    The question wasn't how many nazis there are. What's the deal with the need for strawmen? It wasn't just about the groups, but the support for those groups or their views.

    Beyond that, I'm not the relevance of the size of a rally. How many liberals or conservatives do you think there are in the US? And how many do you think have been to a rally on their side? Lots more people tend to hold views than those that (a) openly share them and (b) are willing to travel across the country for a rally to push them.
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    You dodged the question yet again, unsurprisingly.
     
  5. Major

    Major Member

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    And yet, you still jumped from "practically nonexistent" to "widespread". I can't provide evidence of widespread support because ... I never claimed there was any widespread support. You need to learn how to not randomly shift goalposts when you say stupid things and can't figure out a way to extract yourself from them.

    No, because I could post a dozen tweets from nazis too. Your use of anecdotes that you google from the internet is completely meaningless.
     
  6. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Dear lord, why do I have to spell this out to you Barney style? Oh yeah, you're slow, I keep forgetting.

    It was my assertion (along with all available information on the subject) that Nazi supporters and white nationalist supporters are a very tiny percent of the population and are "practically nonexistent" compared to the support for other identitarian groups and Communist groups. It's your assertion that support for Nazis and white nationalists is more widespread so I asked you to back that up with something.....and you still haven't.

    I still leave the invitation for you to post anything supporting your claims that you were so sure of as to call me a "liar".....but I know you won't.

    Really? You could post a dozen Nazis speaking publicly on a college campus without protest? I highly doubt it. Any time one of those people speak it causes protest....which is my point. They have very little support unlike other racist identitarians or Communists.
     
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  7. Major

    Major Member

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    http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-con... Sample and Tables_August 17, 2017.pdf#page=3

    From what you have heard or seen about each of the following do you mostly agree or mostly disagree with their beliefs: The white supremacy movement?

    4% of Americans agree
    86% disagree
    4% unsure
    6% no opinion

    4% of a country is not "virtually non-existent" by any definition of the word. Ignoring kids, since they weren't surveyed in the poll, that extrapolates to about 9 million people.
     
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  8. Major

    Major Member

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  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    LOL keep reading the poll

    From what you have heard or seen about each of the following do you mostly agree or mostly disagree with their beliefs: Black Lives Matter?
    50% of Americans agree
    33% dsagree
    7% unsure
    9% no opinion

    From what you have heard or seen about each of the following do you mostly agree or mostly disagree with their beliefs: Ku Klux Klan?
    2% of Americans agree
    94% disagree
    2% unsure
    2% no opinion

    From what you have heard or seen about each of the following do you mostly agree or mostly disagree with their beliefs: Antifa?
    5% of Americans agree
    24% disagree
    53% unsure
    18% no opinion

    So yes, like I said, those who support white nationalists/KKK/Nazis are a very small percent of the population and are "almost non existent compared to those who support other racist identitarian groups or Communist groups. The high "unsure" percentage when it comes to AntiFa is why you are seeing puff pieces and AntiFa propaganda in major newspapers attempting to rally support to their side.
     
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  10. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    It often comes as a response to oppressive dictatorships. It is often violence, but the way the economic system is implemented doesn't mean the system itself is violent by definition.
     
  11. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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  12. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Comparing the support for Neo Nazi groups or white supremacist groups to the other identitarian groups is similar to comparing the support for Gary Johnson in the presidential election to that of Hillary Clinton.....only that comparison isn't even as extreme since Hillary didn't get 50% of the vote.

    I think if I said Gary Johnson's support was almost nothing compared to that of Hillary Clinton in the last election, no one would disagree with me and when I make a similar statement you lose your mind and call me a liar.
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Communism IS an oppressive dictatorship in and of itself though...you have to know that.
     
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  14. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    The communist economic system takes money/goods from people by force of law (as in backed up by threat of violence and imprisonment) and gives that money/those goods to other people. It is inherently violent. It is inherently immoral.
     
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  15. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I could describe capitalism in comparable terms.
     
  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Or as someone who had to live through Communism once put it

     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I didn't say they were the same morally or otherwise.

    The Antifa and Nazi party were the two main groups involved in the event that have received a majority of the media attention.

    Further, both are marginal groups holding marginal membership but receiving widespread media attention.
     
  18. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Thousands of people attended protests and counter-protests in Charlottesville. And you say that Antifa and Nazis have marginal membership. So how can they be the "main groups" involved? It seems to me that while the white nationalists were notable for staging it and antifa was notable for their willingness to physically resist, by numbers the main group is all the unaffiliated citizens who showed up. This is why I get annoyed with Trump's 'both sides' formulation that divides the country between nazis and antifa. Just because you denounce and protest nazis does not mean you have any love for antifa.
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Every system has the force of law which uses the threat of violence and imprisonment. That is true of every single system and isn't at all unique to communism.

    If that's how we are judging then every single system is immoral.
     
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  20. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Who knew laws were inherently immoral. o_O
     
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