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Sorting out the source of criticism

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by rua2006, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. rua2006

    rua2006 Member

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    I wanted to talk about the nature of the view people have on the Rockets right now. What are the criticisms? Are these criticisms deeply flawed, and if so, how? It's interesting to take a look at.

    I was thinking about what the criticism is of the Rockets' 18-game win streak. There has been criticism that the Rockets have not beaten tough teams on this streak. However, this only suggests that people cannot be sure about the Rockets' abilities against the elite teams come playoff time. I think a lot of the criticism is shifting in the wrong direction, in that people are suggesting the streak itself is a meaningless or worthless one. The streak itself is a magnificent accomplishment. To be resilient for this many games, to be so dominant and to play with such immense chemistry without losing is a feat, without a doubt. Also, we've won nine straight by double digits. Perhaps we're playing sub-par teams, but we're beating them resoundingly with defense AND offense, the type of well-balanced attack that gives the Spurs their victories. Winning so solidly against sub-par teams leaves a huge amount of room for the possibility that we would take elite teams to the wire. That "the Yao-less Rockets haven't beaten anyone legitimate, so they can't beat anyone legitimate" contains the same underlying logic as "the quarterback just threw the ball 30 yards...this means he can't throw the ball more than 30 yards."

    In general, I think the critics are just not actually analyzing the situation enough. They see that our 18 wins are against weak teams. They don't talk about how we are winning these games. If they talked about that, and then showed how this style of play would fail against elite teams, I would respect their words more. But most (like Barkley previously and Jon Barry still) don't. They cite a lack of Yao, but that doesn't address who the Rockets are now. It's not like removing Yao automatically removes 22 points and 11 rebounds. It alters the team dynamic, so it's more complex, and most analysts don't address that complexity, instead just saying that Yao was "too important." Yes, he was very important. But give me more. What did he bring? What is the team supposed to turn into? What specifically about the lack of Yao will cause us to fail?

    Explain what holes we have, and don't say a defensive presence in the paint, because Dikembe is solid. Tell me why we would not hold up. They just see team names on the win streak and say "beating bad teams + lack of Yao = first-round exit." Rather, I see it as "beating bad teams resoundingly + lack of Yao + different team dynamic + playing time for Dikembe = ??". The fact is, you can't make judgments based on who we've beaten.

    Now, my opinion is that we are built for a huge run in the playoffs, but I can understand why some would be hesitant. Just explain yourself without using the same sentence over and over, and without telling me Yao Ming is tall.
     
  2. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    I don't think in this streak we have played a premier All star Power Forward yet. Tim Duncan, Dirk, KG, Boozer, Gasol (with Kobe and not his useless memphis team mates). I believe this is where we will be tested. I mean its all good to say that we have beaten alot of teams (which we have) but come play off when the game slows down and the ball goes to these guys. I'd like to see how Scolandry does.
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy QUEEN ANON

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    Something tells me when faced with those foes we may see a lot more Hayes doing damage as opposed to Scolandry......
     
  4. pangzi

    pangzi Member

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    Today's game worries me the most comparing to the previous games we won without Yao. Maybe if Landry play I can feel a little better. It's simple: we have to drain the 3s and play TMac for 48 minutes. We don't have another reliable scoring option and we can't defend other team's superstars.
     
  5. rua2006

    rua2006 Member

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    Yeah, and with those strong guys, it's less about height and more about strength/quickness to keep them away from the basket. Of course, it'll be nice to have Dikembe hovering around the paint to disrupt anything around there, but Landry and Battier will do a good job on Duncan/Nowitzki/Boozer/Gasol, who are only 3 or 4 inches taller. If they can get the hand in the face enough during jumpshots, stop them on their cuts to the basket, and keep them away from it in other ways too, we'll be okay in that respect.
     
  6. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    that doesn't work either.
    If you think about how we would play Utah? We won't have Dikembe camped out on the three point line. I think we'll see alot of Scola at Centre if we see Hayes out defending the TD's and Dirks of the world. In fact that will mean a direct drop in minutes for Landry.
    We all know in a 7 game series that we won't be able to shoot like we did today. Even if we did it won't go over a 14 game period against two play off teams (ala Golden State last year). Realistically speaking if we win games it'll be in the post. With T-mac posting up, Scola posting up, Landry getting points in the paints even a bit of Battier posting up.

    I want to see specifically how the minutes will be distributed against a premier power forward, and how the offence will flow with more Hayes. Hayes played alot today, and that was without West. If West was playing it would have been a whole new kettle of fish. Im not trying to put a spin on it at all, but i was honestly disappointed that West didn't play. I wanted to see how we matched up. Same with no Dirk.
     
  7. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    I admit I was impressed with Landry against TD and our recent play against Gasol. But the West has changed dramatically since we last played them. For example if Bynum comes back the Lakers will destroy us in the post. Kobe, Gasol and Bynum. Battier, Hayes Scola? with T-mac on Lamar?

    Please note that I don't expect Landry to repeat performances like that against TD. Over a 7 games series i expect the All STar Calibre Pf's to own our PFs at some point simply because their game isn't as polished at the NBA level. I would love to eat crow on this point to be honest but i just don't see it
     
  8. Old Man Rock

    Old Man Rock Contributing Member

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    Don't sweat it, we aren't even going to make the playoffs!
     
  9. dandorotik

    dandorotik Contributing Member

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    I think it's real simple. We are a nation of predictors and prognosticators. Many feel that if they are right about a prediction, it makes them a better person. The Rockets' winning streak defies all logic. You look at the other teams with 16+-game winning streaks, and they were all "legitimate" championship contenders having great seasons. This has taken everyone by surprise. So, analysts like Barkley and Barry keep thinking, "Wait, they're not a championship contender...they can't do this without Yao...oh, they're gonna have to lose soon...it's gonna be the game in New Orleans, you watch...wait, I meant the first meaningful game w/o Yao against the Nuggets...I meant the game on the road in Dallas...wait, I really meant the home game against the Hornets...umm, well, they can't possibly go to 20, can they?"

    You see, it's all a reflection of the egos of these people. It has very little to do with the team. Just think- how many of you all dissed the Trail Blazers when they won 11 or 12 in a row earlier in the year? C'mon, admit it- some of you probably thought, "Well, they're just getting lucky...they're playing weak teams..OK, their streak will definitely end at 10..I mean, 11...." Some of us probably did the same thing.

    This is the problem with the media. Everyone wants to pump up a "sure thing" like the Patriots or Lakers, and they feel the need to be absolute in their judgments with others: "Rockets will not make the playoffs." Then they wind up with egg on their face, as many did for the Super Bowl. What is so wrong with saying, "You know, I don't know how the Rockets are doing it without Yao, and it may be tough to advance without Yao, but you have to give them credit for a wonderful run and, at this point, you can't count them out- they're legit."

    Any one of us, including me, is somewhat guilty of the same when we disparage other teams, like calling the Heat a "scrub" team and saying that a player like Dirk Nowitski "s**ks." I know, I do the same, but I'm just saying that some of us, like me, is guilty of disrespecting other teams, as well.

    That being said, screw the media. I read a lot of SI, ESPN, NBA.com, etc. articles, and I'm telling you that the people on this board are much more knowledgeable than the large majority of those individuals about basketball. Our opinions about the Rockets have so much more validity. It's really the most informative sports writing that I've come across- I think the Memphis board is pretty knowledgeable, too, but we're the best.
     
  10. bbjai

    bbjai Member

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    I dont doubt the playoffs

    but Im not as confident about a 7 game series
     
  11. OGKashMoney

    OGKashMoney Member

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    Nice post/read.

    A couple notes to add to some of your points:

    1. What the pundits/experts fail to realize and give us credit for is that the two teams that have stopped the other long win streaks are the Blazers (ended the Laker streak) and Nuggets (ended the Spurs streak) and we have beat both of those teams very decisively! Even if you consider those two teams "weak" opponents (and to a certain extent I consider them below-elite for separate reasons) you still have to respect what the Rockets have done because it shows that even the two favorites in the West weren't able to concentrate long enough to beat these "weaker" teams. For example, we have withstood great/unbelievable performances from Brandon Roy, AI, and now Chris Paul to keep our streak alive.

    2. The one thing that gives me great faith in our team even in the playoffs is our defense. This team plays great defense for 40-42 minutes each game. They have certain moments where the kind of get lazy or tired and back off, but then we quickly jump back on the opponents thanks to players who are committed to playing defense (Deke, Rafer, Shane, Scola, Hayes, etc). These players want to get down and in the opponent's face. That commitment to defensive will help the team out a lot in the playoffs.

    3. If we face Utah, we have a better match-up against them than last year because we can Boozer multiple looks. Scola can annoy him, Landry is athletic enough to bother him, and Hayes is a very physical defender. That will come in handy against Boozer. Also, the three of them allow us to switch between Boozer/Okur whereas last year, we were more prone to leaving one of them for an open shot since Yao/Howard/Hayes combine was too slow.

    4. Only thing that I kind of worried about is our defensive rebound. We are getting killed on the boards, but thanks to our stifling defense, teams aren't getting that many points off of offensive rebounds.
     
  12. ChrisBosh

    ChrisBosh Member

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    Sometimes winning is contagious, similar to long losing streaks, teams aren’t usually as bad or as good as the streak might perceive the team to be, I think we’re going through something similar to what Portland went through earlier this year……they just happened to get on a roll, though eventually came back to earth, we’ll do the same.

    If Yao was still playing I’d be more willing to accept that this team has transformed into a powerhouse, but unfortunately that’s not the case, we have two superstars and both have suffered injury woes throughout their careers....let’s be real, Yao and McGrady haven’t been the perfect tandem, whether that be due to injury or otherwise, they just haven’t shown us before that they can make it work together (Go on a streak like this). Just pointing out the some concerns……
     
  13. crimmy88

    crimmy88 Member

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    This is what worries me the most. Im really worried how the Rockets would respond if they go on a 2-3 game skid.. >_<
     
  14. Trini Rocket

    Trini Rocket Member

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    I think the criticisms of the streak stems from the media not viewing us as an elite team.

    Until we do something in the playoffs, we cant be considered elite. And moreso since Yao has gone down. Since only elite teams make these kinds of runs then something has to be wrong. So they try to find flaws and come up with "they have only faced weak teams". That's how they see it.
     
  15. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    The Celtics haven't done anything in the playoffs either. They were immediately considered elite from the start when they were destroying weak opponents left and right.

    I think that's because they have three stars, and we only have two. Now we are down to only one.
     
  16. Trini Rocket

    Trini Rocket Member

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    That's true but they haven't failed either. It's common sense to think that if you put three superstars together and surround them with some decent people something good will come of it. They also reinforced that by winning a ton of games to start the season.

    In all fairness, I believe the Yao-T Mac tandem was given the same benefit of the doubt when the Rockets first traded for McGrady. At least I remember thinking it was the next coming of Shaq-Kobe.

    But because of recent playoff failures, they now have to prove themselves.
     
  17. RoxD

    RoxD Member

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    Well, your argument is so weak that the criticisms are still standing out there.

    You actually beat up the criticisms with the argument like "the Yao-less Rockets haven't beaten anyone legitimate, so they can't beat anyone legitimate." But in reality, there is no criticism like this. Every single fan of the Rockets knows that "you haven't done sth" does not mean "you cannot do it in the future".

    So you have not fighted the criticisms in reality. What you are fighting is the criticism you made up. Sorry to point this out.
     
  18. MYM[Moon

    MYM[Moon Member

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    yeah, unless we beat Lakers and Spurs in coming regular season(no lack of starter), or pass 1st round and advance even deeper ,then will the major media accept that the rox is an elite team! Anyway, actions speak louder than words!
     
  19. magnetik

    magnetik Contributing Member

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    well for now.. DON'T THINK ABOUT IT. :D
     
  20. MandM's

    MandM's Member

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    bottom line...18 wins in a row against ANYBOBY in professional sports (any sport) is a huge accomplishment
     

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