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Rockets to potentially protest game?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ThatBoyNick, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. rockets11206

    rockets11206 Member

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    with this...I think they are going to replay from 7:50 mark
     
  2. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Ok... maybe. Maybe not.

    Not sure how that's relevant to whether or not the call was blown and what should be done about it?
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    it's not. We were discussing something different. You were part of it by making a claim and I replied.
     
  4. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

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    The Rockets are a JOKE. Those 2 points don't even matter. You gave up a 22 point lead. You were up 13 even after that dunk. Your superstars decided to chill and only shoot contested step back 3s the last minutes of the 4th. You got outcoahed and out hustled. Stop crying. Take the ****ing loss. This looks pathetic
     
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  5. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    As I've noted, the Rockets aren't the only team to blow leads.

    I tend to think that they have to be near the top, but I also tend to think most of us making random blanket statements like this have little idea because very few of us are watching enough game of other teams so religiously as to be able to make a legitimate conclusion. It requires data. Quick googling and it appears that (1) blown leads are more frequent in this 3 point, space and increased pace era, and (2) an analysis done by a dude on reddit had the Rockets having blown 4 leads whatever year that was about a year+ ago, which tied them for 3rd in the West with GS.

    That GS also seems to have blown a higher number of leads than many teams should be noted.

    It absolutely has to do with play style a bit.

    Point being... I think it is likely they do blow more leads than many teams. But further point being, I think that is probably even more reason that a protest makes sense. This is WHO THEY ARE. There are certainly little things they can tighten up, but it's just going to happen.

    The best counter argument to such an egregious blown call shouldn't be "well, they still blew a huge lead"... but rather, there are missed calls both ways.
     
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  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Whenever you have a high octane offense that has a lot of variance in a small sample size (measured in minutes) you are going to see big leads evaporate at times and see big deficits evaporate as well. That is the Rockets, and it is a consequence of a high value placed on three point field goals, pushing the pace and free throws. The Rockets had the same issue when they won 65 games as well. back in 2017-2018 they had very good defensive players like Paul, Ariza and Moute to limit the damage on the defensive end.

    Currently the Rockets have the best player in the world (Harden), a very flawed aging former star that cannot shoot (Westbrook), a center that cannot shoot or defend the perimeter (Capela), a former lottery bust (McLemore) and a power forward that cannot guard every spot on the floor while everyone else stands around. It is a very flawed group. The spacing is very bad, the transition defense is mediocre and no one other than Harden can consistently create and score.

    The spacing will improve some when House and Gordon are healthy (assuming they shoot well), but even then it isn't optimal. Teams can sag off of Rajon Westbrook and close the lane. Capela is no threat to shoot from the outside either. Doubling softly on Harden is as easy as ever which cuts down his penetration in the lane, his three point shot and his ability to set up players on the perimeter.

    There really isn't much MDA can do either, as he is being asked to fit a square peg in a round hole. The only people that can do anything are the GM and owner, and the GM is being told who to trade (Paul), who to trade for (Westbrook) and not to spend any money to improve the team... even to the extend that they Hollis-Jefferson over a few hundred thousand dollars.
     
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I think Harden has too many glaring holes in his game to be considered the best player in the NBA. His holes drop him to top 3-5 in the league.
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I know you do.

    Every off season you also think he is fat and out of shape.

    Every off season you think he has screwed around and has not improved his game.

    Yet every year for 8 straight seasons he has gotten better and has worked on his game.

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you are far from objective on the topic.
     
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  9. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    same dudes will excuse the refs when they screw us in the playoffs yet again bringing up the same BS talking points

    always so quick to excuse ref incompetence
     
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  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    How am I not objective? If anything I would be not objective in favor of Harden being a life long Rocket fan?

    Yes, Harden not being as lean as the tradional NBA guard does bite him occasionally from not having the stamina like other proffesional NBA players to chase down players in transitions to standing around with cement feet when the ball isn't in his hands to settling for floaters or barely off the ground lay ups that lead to easy blocks from defenders.

    And yes, he only works on a narrow aspect of his game that that's face up iso scoring. That is literally the only aspect of basketball Harden seems to care about. And it leads to him falling apart in crucial clutch situations where defenses can hone in on his tendencies and he can't fall back to a plan b such as post ups or mid range.

    I don't know how I would be biased against Harden. These are opinions I have naturally formed by watching A LOT of Rocket games. I had no affinity for or against Harden before he joined the team.

    He's the best face up isolation scorer in the NBA and below average at almost every other aspect of playing the game of basketball.

    It's amazing how offended you are just because I think Harden isn't "the best player in the game" and just top 5. It's not like I think he's a scrub.
     
    #270 fchowd0311, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  11. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I'm usually - and still - on your side as far as end conclusion.

    That said, he's the best ISO scorer maybe ever, he's the best free throw getter maybe ever, he's a way above average rebounder for a guard, and he's a supreme passer.

    He's a below average defender, one of the worst every wrt to turnovers, one of the worst every wrt movement off ball.

    I don't focus on his weight or stamina much. His mpg is always huge and his games played is always huge.

    Again, I concur with your end conclusion. He needs to be a better ball and rotation defender, move more and be more effective as a threat off ball and worry less about stats and more about rings.
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  12. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

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    Hopefully this game wakes up our lethargic 4th qtr defense moving forward.

    I know The Tilman is broke but he needs to take a loan out for a Westbrick shooting coach.......
     
  13. Nook

    Nook Member

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    First, there is nothing wrong with Harden's stamina. He has averaged 37 minutes per game over the last 8 seasons with the Rockets. He leads the league in minutes played per game during that same period of time I believe. He also has an incredible offensive load. His stamina is exceptional. The issues you are trying to attach to Harden also apply to LeBron James and Westbrook when he was in his prime.

    Harden does not only work on one part of his game. He has greatly improved his defense the last 4-5 years. He post defense has improved greatly to the point of being elite for his position. His perimeter defense has improved greatly as well, so that he is now average. His passing has improved as well.

    The idea that Harden is "below average at almost every other aspect of playing the game of basketball" is absurd and only furthers my point that you are biased. No one objectively watching James Harden can reasonably reach that conclusion. Also, because (by design) Harden doesn't take a lot of mid range shots doesn't mean that he cannot shoot them. For his career he is a 43% shooter from 10-16 feet. For comparison sake LeBron James is a career 37% shooter from that distance. Also he is a very good passer, he also is a good rebounder, he is very good at steals and is even above average at his position for blocking shots.

    He isn't as good as LeBron James finishing inside (possibly the best finisher ever) but he is still exceptional at 65% for his career (with a high number).

    For his career Harden shoots the same on threes whether assisted or not. So he has no issues shooting off the pass.

    As a free throw shooter, he is the best in NBA history at drawing contact. He shoots a really good percentage from the line as well.



    So, when it is all said and done his prime offensive production and ability is top 3 all time. For his career, he may well finish in the top 3 as well if he plays well enough long enough.

    He has the highest scoring average in modern basketball history this season, and it isn't even close. Right now he is averaging 39.5 points a game, while efficient and the greatest player ever to play averaged 37.1 nearly 35 years ago.
     
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  14. RocketsFan247

    RocketsFan247 Member

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    This is a lazy take.

    People acting like whatever we produced, although it was crap, wasn't worth anything. If given the facts, we should have won.... by 2. This isn't a grey area type of "missed call, so play on". This is the essence of what makes basketball a sport. If you can't define that a bucket is a bucket, then there is no sport. Reproduce this same situation 3 plays straight where players from both teams make 3 straight baskets and the refs pretend no baskets were made. It's unacceptable to call what you're watching a sport. The only thing that makes this a controversy is that our players allowed this game to get that close in the first place, thereby forcing the league to respond whether a team should have won or lost. If we had still blown them out, the league's response to this would be simply to correct the score and give us 2 extra points. We lost the lead but we didn't lose the game at the end of regulation. While it's easy to say we let them have it, our team's play still amounts to something even if it is atrocious and lacking.

    If the refs called it correctly, the headlines for this game would/should have been: "In a close loss to the Rockets, Lonnie Walker showed how the Spurs can right this ship" - not "In a close loss, Spurs should have won because Rockets know how to cough up big leads".
     
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  15. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    I have seen it all. A made basket no longer matters in a league where it's all about how many baskets you make. 2 points doesn't matter if you are up by 20, therefore all buckets after leads of 20 or more should no longer count.

    Watching all these people on TV and the internet say a missed made bucket doesn't matter feels like I'm in a dystopian future timeline... This has to be an episode of Black Mirror.
     
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  16. John Harvey

    John Harvey Member

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    Refs need to be paid a potential max salary every year and when they miss calls they need to be penalized with a salary deduction.
     
  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The one thing I wished Harden could do is incorporate the part of the game he had when he joined the Rockets. He had a really sleek effortless mid range game. He needs to spend an entire off-season incorporating that back to his game and maybe trying to get back to the weight he had when he joined the Rockets. It's possible. Guys like LeBron and Kobe have stressed and practiced maintaining high amounts of leanness in their later stages of their careers which allowed them to play at a high level in their mid 30s. Getting to that leanness would probably help in him not being so slow footed on defense.

    This is going to allow him to have a plan b when teams in crunch time decide to pack the paint and guard the three and allow Harden free reign to operate in the mid range. That way we will have a lesser tendency to have these epic collapses relatively often.
     
  18. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    Sounds like you just saw The Jump.
     
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  19. omgTHEpotential

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    ??????????????????????????????????????????/
    ????????

    "Referee James Capers admits they missed the call on James Harden’s dunk"

    He admits? What is there to admit??? No **** they missed the call.
     
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  20. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    I turned that mug off.. smh.. I'm so foolish! I know everyone hates the Rockets, Harden and Morey, but I thought we could all come to a consensus that made baskets should be awarded when they are made baskets.

    "You guys were up 22!" is the DUMBEST justification for taking points off the board in the history of sports

    This doesn't feel real.. This has to be a simulation.
     
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