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prime kobe v.s. prime LeBron

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by catch22, Aug 10, 2012.

  1. Icehouse

    Icehouse Contributing Member

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    Actually, the stats showing Kobe outscoring Shaq in the 4Q of the 3-peat years aren't there. Which is why it's not surprising that you have yet to post any support. Sending someone to google when you can't provide support stopped working around 7 years ago.
     
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  2. fckbandwagons

    fckbandwagons Member

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    You're digging a hole that'll be harder to get out of lol. Prime lebron > prime kobe get over it. Prime shaq > bosh wade
     
    Daddy Long Legs likes this.
  3. arno_ed

    arno_ed Contributing Member

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    #363 arno_ed, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  4. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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  5. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    one can better judge by their shoes.

    i've had a lerbons, but never kobe. though that's not saying much, since i've also had mergady and quitten shoes.
     
  6. Steve_Francis_rules

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    I'm sure that if Lebron's team had signed an all-time top 10 player one month after he was drafted (like Kobe's team did) and had the benefit of playing with him for the first eight years of his career, he wouldn't have gone forming superfriends teams either. But, instead of Shaq, Lebron had Mo Williams as the best teammate of his first stint with Cleveland.
     
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  7. hakeemthagreat

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    Along with Zydrunas Ilgauskas, who was actually a 2 time allstar. Thats good enough in the eastern conference
     
  8. Steve_Francis_rules

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    Yep, playing in the East with Big Z is definitely preferably to playing in the West with one of the 10 greatest players in the history of the league.
     
  9. hakeemthagreat

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    But relative to the east, the Cavs had a decent roster back then. If you want to compare who had more superstars throughout careers Lebron wins easily. Lebron NEEDS atleast 2 other superstars on a eastern conference team to be in the finals. Just having Shaq wont cut it (who's gonna take all the clutch shots???)
     
  10. Steve_Francis_rules

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    A team with a prime Shaq and a 22 year old Lebron wouldn't need anyone to take clutch shots because every game would be over before the 4th quarter even started.

    And did Lebron really play with more superstars than Kobe? You keep counting Wade, Bosh, Allen, Irving, and Love as Lebron's superstar teammates. Let's see if we can find a comparable "superstar" teammate of Kobe's for each of those guys.

    Shaq >> Wade, no question Shaq was the better player
    Gasol == Bosh, both 20/10 big men prior to joining Kobe/Lebron, both the centerpieces of playoff teams. Bosh won a series only because he played in a much weaker conference.
    Karl Malone/Gary Payton == Ray Allen. Malone was obviously better in his prime. Malone and Allen were two years removed from their last all-star appearances, Malone had more recently (3 years) been an all-nba player than allen (7 years). Payton was only one year removed from being an all-star and two years removed from being an all-nba player.
    Glen Rice < Kyrie Irving, People forget that Kobe played with Glen Rice, who was an all-nba player in consecutive seasons before going to LAL and was the centerpiece of some pretty good teams in Charlotte. As ridiculous as this comparison may sound, Kyrie Irving has only once been on an all-nba team and has never won anything without Lebron.
    Eddie Jones < Kevin Love. Eddie Jones was a two-time all-star while teaming with Kobe, made three consecutive all-nba defensive teams and an all-nba team, and was the best player on some mediocre Miami Heat teams. If Kevin Love, the empty stats all-star, counts as a "superstar" then I see no reason why a solid two-way player like Jones shouldn't count.

    Now, I don't really think all these guys were superstars. I would generally reserve that label for a much narrower elite, and I would only count Shaq/Wade as true superstars. But if Lebron's teammates who never really won anything without him (Bosh, Irving, Love) or who were way past their prime (Allen) count as superstar teammates, so do Karl Malone, Gary Payton, Glen Rice, Pau Gasol, and Eddie Jones, guys who were all the centerpieces of at least decent teams, and each made multiple all-star and all-nba teams.
     
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  11. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    You do understand that those cavs teams that were winning 50-60 games with Lebron would have been winning 15-20 without him right? He was consistently on the worst/2nd worst roster in the nba for years
     
  12. Steve_Francis_rules

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    But Big Z was an all-star in 2003! That's good enough in the Eastern Conference... for a 17-65 record.
     
  13. hakeemthagreat

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    Dont forget 2005 he was allstar as well. Mo Williams also averaged 17pts a game his 1st year in Cleveland. Worst roster in the league? You do realize there were eastern conference teams with no allstars lol
     
  14. fckbandwagons

    fckbandwagons Member

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    Kobe had Shaq, prime Shaq! Let that sink in
     
  15. hakeemthagreat

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    Lebron had Chris Bosh & Wade AND Ray Allen, in a WEAKER conference against less competition. Let THAT sink in
     
  16. fckbandwagons

    fckbandwagons Member

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    define weak?

    2011
    ATL-9th in the league in opp pts/g
    ORL-4th opp pts/g, 3rd def rtg, 52 wins
    CHI-2nd opp pts/g, 1st def rtg, 62 wins
    BOS-1st opp pts/g, 2nd def rtg, 56 wins

    2012 (lockout season)
    BOS-2nd opp pts/g, 1st def rtg
    ATL-6th opp pts/g, 6th def rtg
    IND-10th opp pts/g, 9th def rtg
    ORL-7th opp pts/g
    PHI-3rd opp pts/g, 3rd def rtg
    CHI-1st opp pts/g, 2nd def rtg

    2013
    CHI-3rd opp pts/g, 6th def rtg
    BKN-6th opp pts/g, 49 wins
    IND-2nd opp pts/g, 1st def rtg, 49 wins
    NYK-7th opp pts/g, 54 wins (anthony, chandler, kidd, kenyon martin, jr smith, amare stoudemire, rasheed wallace)

    2014
    BKN(garnett, johnson, kirilenko, livingston, lopez, pierce, jason terry, deron williams)-very good roster!
    TOR-7th opp pts/g, 10th def rtg, 48 wins
    IND-2nd opp pts/g, 1st def rtg, 56 wins
    WAS-9th opp pts/g, 8th def rtg
    CHI-1st opp pts/g, 2nd def rtg, 48 wins

    2015
    ATL-5th opp pts/g, 6th def rtg, 60 wins
    WAS-10th opp pts/g, 5th def rtg
    CHI-9th opp pts/g, 50 wins
    MIL-8th opp pts/g, 4th def rtg

    2016
    ATL-6th opp pts/g, 2nd def rtg, 48 wins
    BOS-4th def rg, 48 wins
    MIA-5th opp pts/g, 9th def rtg, 48 wins
    CHA-9th opp pts/g, 8th def rtg, 48 wins
    TOR-3rd opp pts/g, 56 wins
    IND-8th opp pts/g, 3rd def rtg

    2017
    ATL-10th opp pts/g, 4th def rtg
    BOS-56 wins
    CHI-6th opp pts/g, 6th def rtg
    TOR-8th opp pts/g, 51 wins
    WAS-49 wins
     
  17. hakeemthagreat

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    Wait, so what are these metrics stats arguing again? Are you telling me according to these stats. the east really isn't the weaker conference? Lol. The Western conference has been the dominate conference for about 20 years now. You disagree?
     
  18. fckbandwagons

    fckbandwagons Member

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    You're not even answering the question. Define being the "weaker" conference? Prime shaq > wade bosh. End of story
     
  19. fckbandwagons

    fckbandwagons Member

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    Prime Lebron>prime kobe get over it
     
  20. hakeemthagreat

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    That's a dumb question. Metric stats can be manipulated to paint a picture that doesn't reflect reality. It's simple, the Western conference has better teams than the East does. The east is the weaker conference (i can't believe you're arguing this lol). Anybody who actually watches NBA basketball knows this. No metrics needed. Lebron has a cakewalk to the finals every year

    Western Conference>>>>>>>>>>Eastern Conference
     

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