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[Official] Joe 2020

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by justtxyank, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    actually we agree on a lot, I don't love Biden as a candidate either but I don't think he has to declare war on Republicans either.

    Biden knows what McConnell is he saw him 1st hand with Obama.

    I particularly like Warren but I hate this demonizing of moderate Republicans.
     
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  2. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    ok I see you are all over the place.

    I'm out.
     
  3. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    What is a modern, moderate Republican in the Senate? The only GOP senators who stood up to the get-behind-Trump-and-debase-yourself orthodoxy retired before the midterms (Flake and Corker). The only sitting one I can somewhat think of as moderate is Lisa Murkowski and, even then, she should be deservedly lambasted if she ever starts calling for "fiscal responsibility" under a Democratic president. The deal with the devil that almost every single Republican official has made should not be forgotten if President Trump loses in 2020. If it were up to me, they'd be wearing a scarlet T on their chest for the rest of their time in office.

    The issue I have is that we allow the word "moderate" to shift constantly on conservative terms. Obamacare was a Republican-authored healthcare plan that was called "socialist" and "government-run" simply because they didn't enact the law; These "moderates" spoke of "death panels" and socialism instead of actually trying to legislate a consensus healthcare bill; Republican "moderates" are still expected to vote in favor of debunked economic theories that add trillions of dollars to the debt while refusing to consider any type of tax increase or financial sector regulation; the "moderates" should be willing to break with the GOP and vote on gun control measures, like Manchin-Toomey, that over 80% of Americans supported. Instead, they're largely prisoners to the party line and primary voters.

    Moderation requires nuance and a willingness to break with orthodoxy on important issues, not just tsk-tsking the latest presidential Twitter fart. I guarantee you this: the "moderates" who got in line behind denying a single committee hearing to a Supreme Court nominee because "it was an election year" will vote en masse for a Trump nominee if Ruth Bader Ginsburg dies in 2020. Take that to the bank.
     
    #383 mtbrays, Aug 30, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2019
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  4. Major

    Major Member

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    President Warren or Sanders is still going to have to deal with a Mitch McConnell. Do you think he's going to be any easier to work with for them, especially when moderate Senators aren't on board with any of their proposals either?

    Your best bet to avoid Majority Leader McConnell is to win the Senate, which is being fought in mostly red and purple states this year - Colorado, Arizona, Georgia. The best way to win those seats? A Joe Biden type at the top of the ticket attracting moderates. Bernie or Warren can win the Presidency, but they will have a very traditional map and zero coattails in red states.
     
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  5. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    i don't currently see a moderate Republican but I still don't have an issue with what Biden says and it sounds good to independent voters.

    I think the pendulum will swing and more Republicans will be eager to look bipartisan, I think there is a good chance Mitch McConnell will be defeated and Democrats take the Senate, I could be wrong but we would be no worse off.

    i realize what Republicans did and are doing is despicable, I just don't see what Biden has said means anything.
     
  6. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    You make good points!
     
  7. TheresTheDagger

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  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Liberal rags starting to call out Biden's stonewalling as a liability in the GE.

    It's a solid point. Trump voters want to use Donny to destroy the beast from within like some old fashioned Medieval form of leeching. Biden smelling like the Swamp is enough to turn off voters like Hillary's emails.

    Vox aggregates all the concerns with their own

    Intercept lays it all out
    More than what you want to know about the mess that's Hunter Biden in link:
    IN TRADING ON his father’s name and power to advance his career, Hunter Biden was following in the footsteps of James Biden, Joe’s younger brother. It began small. In 1973, one year after Joe Biden was elected to the Senate at age 29, James Biden opened the nightclub Seasons Change with what Politico, referencing contemporaneous local reporting in Delaware, called “unusually generous bank loans.” When James ran into trouble, Joe, as a senator, later complained that the bank shouldn’t have loaned James the money. “What I’d like to know,” Biden told the News Journal in 1977, “is how the guy in charge of loans let it get this far.” The paper investigated, and sources at the bank said that the loan was made because James was Joe’s brother.

    James, in the ’90s, founded Lion Hall Group, which lobbied for Mississippi trial lawyers involved in tobacco litigation. According to Curtis Wilkie’s book “The Fall of the House of Zeus,” the trial lawyers wanted James Biden’s help pushing Joe Biden on tobacco legislation.

    That same decade, in 1996, Hunter Biden got in the game. Fresh out of law school, with thousands of options before him, he chose to go work for MBNA, then a dominant issuer of credit cards, while also serving as Biden’s deputy campaign manager. MBNA was one of the most powerful corporations in Delaware, a state with no shortage of major companies thanks to its lax tax and regulatory approach, and has since been absorbed by Bank of America. Biden in the 1990s was known half-jokingly as the senator from MBNA, though he didn’t find it funny. “I’m not the senator from MBNA,” he said in 1999.

    He was, however, MBNA’s greatest champion in the Senate. Throughout the 1990s, bankruptcies were on the rise, and MBNA began pushing hard to reform the law to make it harder for people to discharge debt. The controversy brought Elizabeth Warren into politics; a well-known bankruptcy law professor, she was appointed to a commission to review the law, which began her decadeslong clash with Biden.

    In 2001, Hunter Biden transitioned full-time to a federal lobbyist, though he stayed on the payroll of MBNA as a consultant until 2005, when President George W. Bush signed Biden’s Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act into law. It was a savage piece of legislation, and Joe Biden even worked to block an amendment that would have offered bankruptcy protection to people with medical debt. The bill also blocked people from discharging private student loan debt under bankruptcy. Total student loan debt was under $400 billion in 2005; it surged in the wake of the law’s passage and is now over $1.5 trillion.

    Hunter Biden’s transparent cashing-in on his name was becoming a political liability for his father, so Joe Biden pushed him to find non-lobbying work, Anthony Lotito, a New York financial adviser, said in a complaint he filed in a New York state court. (James and Hunter, in a separate filing, denied that Joe Biden had made the call to Lotito, their prospective partner in the Paradigm purchase.)

    That Joe Biden saw Hunter’s work as politically damaging enough to him in 2005 demonstrates that he was entirely aware of the appearance it gave of corruption. His solution was to help Hunter and James into their positions at Paradigm Global Advisors. It was there that James told company officials that clients looking to “invest in Joe Biden” would come knocking, as Politico Magazine reported.​


    I think Americans are missing a big opportunity to strike down the nepotism ugliness that Trump exposed and exploited.

    Thanks to SCOTUS, it's hard to prosecute bribery against elected officials without spelling everything letter-for-letter of quid pro quo. Otherwise, it's just "speech as dollars".

    In terms of how ridiculous it is for white collar criminals going unpunished, it's a fifth level inception. Go big or go to jail.
     
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  9. saitou

    saitou J Only Fan

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    Plenty of solid material for GOP to work with here. Really bizarre that Trump and Rudy went through all that trouble with the Ukraine stuff when they could have dug this up stateside with a bit of research.
     
  10. mdrowe00

    mdrowe00 Member

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    ...Trump and Rudy don't work for the United States...

    ...haven't you heard?:):D
     
  11. Hakeemtheking

    Hakeemtheking Member

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    Yep.

    Seen this on Twitter:

    There is Moscow Mitch and Moscow's b****.

    Both are owned by our friend Russia.
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Nixon had his re-election well in hand and didn't need to break in to his opponent's offices either. 90% of the reason we catch criminals is because they do something stupid.
     
  13. adoo

    adoo Member

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    Going back to FDR, Almost 90 years of recent history, The common thread that binds all Elected Dem POTUS has been that

    They have never Previously run for the office
    FDR, JFK, Carter, Clinton and Obama were all first timers

    inasmuch as this is Either the 6th or 7th time that Joe Biden has run for the office, he is on the wrong side of of election history
     
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  14. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    well that's inconvenient

     
  15. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    Two wrongs don't make a right, boomer.
     
  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    if it were what about Trump it would
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  18. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I don't understand this comment. Most people are saying what is wrong is wrong, from Biden or Trump. So I don't follow your logic, unless you mean his followers will view anything he does as correct (?)
     
  19. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    lol. what I mean is that whataboutism is perfectly fine, acceptable, and even expected (here on this forum and elsewhere) when anyone who is Not Trump commits some relatively minor infraction of good taste or violation of social norms, because the enormity of what Trump does in his routine, daily personification of evil dwarfs whatever Not Trump has done. Hence, "but what about Trump" as a socially acceptable and widely repeated political mantra.

    Whereas the opposite scenario does not seem to hold. ;)
     
  20. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Okay, I think I understand what you're saying. Thanks. But I think a lot of people are saying (in Ukraine and elsewhere) that yes it is bad if Biden is proven to be corrupt, and he was wrong to invoke lynching in 1998. Cheers!
     

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