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[OFFICIAL] Bernie Sanders for President thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Feb 19, 2019.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]

    I know insurance companies make profit and so they are the bad guys, but there is a huge myth here that they don't want to keep costs down. The insurance companies are the only ones fighting to lower cost in any real meaningful way. Now sometimes we don't like the way they do it (limiting networks for example) but in the triad of healthcare (doctor/patient/insurance company) the insurance company is the only one that's even close to being on our side with regards to cost.

    The latest Methodist spat with UHC is a great example. Methodist is one of the most expensive hospitals in the country BY FAR. We are talking services costing 50-60% more at their hospitals than anywhere else in Houston. UHC drew a line in the sand and Methodist walked away from one of the largest insurance networks in the country because they refuse to accept any price reductions.
     
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  2. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I am starting to realize a lot of these M4A proponents don't understand how it actually works and the ripple effects.

    This middle man argument illustrates that perfectly.
     
  3. dmoneybangbang

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    That’s the problem with populism...
     
  4. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Im not interested in the 45%. The point is nobody knows the true costs. Health care is not a commodity so therefore its very difficult to have true competition. I go to the doctor and I see a detailed billing statement stating insurance will pay 95% of that $100 q-tip (i know this isnt a good example) and expected to feel happy because i only had to pay $5. Sure, if i could go back and relive the moment and bring my own box of 1000 qtips (which cost $5), I will instead get billed $100 for the cotton ball. That is the nature of cost accounting. When I go buy a vehicle, I know what I am getting. And I can compare across many other makes and manufactures. That is not the case for healthcare. We simply can't shop around different dr's office to see the cost for the cure of the common cold (yes, I know there is no cure). Just like I dont have the luxury to shop around ER's in a life or death emergency.

    Healthcare is a very complex problem. Whitewashing, embracing or dismissing singular issues is unproductive. Tort reform, truth-in-pricing, interstate insurance, more insurance/competition, M4A, ect are all just pieces to a very complex problem.

    Personally, I would like to socialize the infrastructure and let the labor be privatized...in a sense what the FCC does with the airwaves.
     
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  5. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    I completely agree with this. (BTW, I quote you often because you're very knowledgeable on this subject).

    What the data doesnt show is the inefficiencies. Im not implying we have 1.5 trillion in inefficiencies.

    I dont have an immediate problem with how much we spend on medicine. I have a problem with what little value this gives us.
     
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  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Don't know if I agree with that I think its the problem of hero worshipping and the power of someone telling you what you want to hear.
     
  7. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    looks like Warren/CNN's desperate gambit to paint Bernie as sexist backfired spectacularly, he is surging in Iowa and NH at just the right time
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The only real issue I have with Sanders plan is his support of immunity for gun manufacturers. They absolutely should be fair game for civil suits.
     
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  9. dmoneybangbang

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    Wouldn’t you want a moderate to possibly win?
     
  10. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It's insane to believe that Bernie Sanders has a legitimate chance to be president.

    Half this board is scared shitless and half are ride with joy.

    Even though I believe in the long run, many of Bernie's polices are the ideal solutions, I do understand that if he is elected more than likely everyone's 401k return is going to diminish from the stock market being scared shitless of Bernie.

    Bernie Sanders I believe is healthy for the long run sustainability of this country. He's probably going to negatively impact short term economic growth. In fact I'm fairly certain about it as the corporate class will throw fits so they can tell the public about falling stock prices and lower gdp growth to hinder Bernie's reelection chances.

    So many powerful forces against Bernie even if he's elected I see him as a one term president.
     
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  12. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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    I don't have a sense of who would be the weakest in a general election, so don't really care who the nominee is.

    As far as who would be the most damaging if they won the general, it's probably a tie between Warren/Bernie as to who would confiscate my wealth and curtail my freedoms the most (I have suspicions about Mayor Pete in this regard as well).

    But I do have utter contempt for the media, and it would be satisfying to see their hand-picked candidate (Warren) lose.

    CNN is a joke, crap like this is why Rogan has an audience 10 times larger than them

     
    #1052 Commodore, Jan 24, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2020
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  13. Commodore

    Commodore Contributing Member

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  14. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    I largely agree with with this. No matter who Democrats nominate the right wing and the 1% are going to throw an absolute hissy fit and pretend like the sky is falling. Republicans are also going to pledge total and complete non-cooperation with whatever Democrat wins. Regardless of whether or not they spook everyone else into voting him out in 2024, a large part of what is wrong with America is how narrow and right-leaning its Overton Window is. Having people like Bernie become normalized in American politics would be a net positive.
     
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  15. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    After Bernie folded like card table over pressure from the Cenk Ugyr endorsement (over some things he said nearly 20 years ago... when he was a conservative), I was shocked to see his campaign stand up to the Twitter mob and corporate media and stick by Rogan.

    [​IMG]

    Cenk has been in Bernie's corner forever so it was super disappointing to see him bail on him like that. I think his campaign finally wised up and learned that you can't keep capitulating to the outrage merchants, because it will never end and it's never good enough for them. Good for Bernie.
     
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    Polls typically lag 2-3 weeks from the news cycle. Most of the newer ones coming out have Sanders in the lead.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/25/...a-poll-sanders.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes

    The backfire effect is real. An attack that doesn't land with the voters can rally people either on or to the targets side. That appears to have happened here.

    I think Sanders will float back down a bit before voting starts in New Hampshire. Perhaps sooner.
     
  17. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    I think it’s a bit crazy to say Bernie couldn’t win the general election. His poling numbers especially in swing rust belt states are pretty damn good in a head to head with Trump.

    We all know his liabilities which are mostly just based on what fear driven messages we know Republicans will run on.

    But the question is... weren’t they going to run that anyways? Is there one candidate on that stage they aren’t going to say is going to raise your taxes and is a socialist?

    The question is if the entire Dem base buys in after he wins and he makes a VP nomination that helps unify the party a bit. I think if Bernie wins his messaging will be good for those swing states but for the growth states like Georgia, AZ, TX etc. the party needs a broader message that contrasts better with why Dem vs Party of Trump.

    I think the fear messaging against Dems in those states really works with the middle class suburban voters that’ll be key in Nov for also keeping the House and potentially winning the Senate. Bernie winning while losing seats in the Senate would mean nothing big gets done in his first term. Losing the House too would be a nightmare scenario where Bernie’s presidency is under constant attack and is likely impeached for the dumbest reasons imaginable just because Jim Jordan would probably be the speaker of the house.... yeah.

    So Bernie having messaging for states like NV, TX, GA etc. actually matters a lot.
     
    #1057 dobro1229, Jan 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  18. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    Polls have dates. They should capture the "current" cycle when the polls were taken. The last 14 days did have some polls that captured the Warren/Sanders "fight". The backfire might be real, but we need to see more than 1 poll. It does seem that Bernie took a hit and is now bouncing back to where he was a few weeks ago.

    Election Update: It’s Cherry-Picking Season
     
  19. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    Between Iowa and New Hampshire there have been 5 polls released that were conducted since the Warren/Bernie story came out.

    Bernie is winning in 4 of 5 of those polls.

    His national polling average has gone up 4 points in the last 2 weeks.
     
  20. joshuaao

    joshuaao Member

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    bumping this because I haven’t heard a single defense from a Sanders supporter
     
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