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[Official] Andrew Yang for President 2020 Thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Roxfreak724, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Here in the d and d.... maybe i missed it but most people support yang warren or sanders.
     
  2. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    The cross-section of people who support Biden and are internet savvy NBA fans is probably quite small.
     
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  3. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    And I still think it odd... not many moderates around here..
     
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  4. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    oh u
     
  5. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    Biden supporters trend older and more centrist. The interweb and basketball are two younger and more liberal playgrounds. Not really anything earth shattering there.
     
  6. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    There are some. Probably about 25-33% or so of our left posters. But it's not like Biden is the only moderate choice either.
     
  7. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    there are older posters here... esp in the d and d
     
  8. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    I didn't say they didn't exist. But the average age of a clutch fan denizen and the average age of a Biden voter are probably as far apart as any candidate.
     
  9. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    I support nearly all of the Democrat Presidential candidates, including Biden.
     
  10. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    I'm pretty sure he means first choice/top tier support.

    Going further, there may be a bit of an enthusiasm gap, which is not localized here either.
     
  11. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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  12. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    That was very interesting....

    T_Man
     
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  13. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    You are really very pompous.

    The people that support your holy trinity are just the loudest.
     
  14. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    not so much enthusiasm but there definitely is a worship gap.
     
  15. Amiga

    Amiga I get vaunted sacred revelations from social media
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    "resting face that's unwelcoming"

     
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    4% in the first Colorado polls. Nice.

     
  17. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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  18. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    I like Yang, his solution focused approach. Whether you agree with his politics, it seems like he is trying to help. I question UBI and how it might play out. Perhaps folks here can weigh in. I think of it this way; UBI goes to all US citizens in the following rough categories:

    Unemployed people - will they just quit trying to get a job and live of UBI? These folks were living off benefits anyways, so there's no net effect, except maybe they quit trying to get a job. Currently, they can only get unemployment benefits for so long, right?

    Low wage earners - will they quit working at McDonalds or Wal mart and live off UBI? Or will they keep working at McDonalds and see UBI as the proverbial "leg up" they need to get out of a lifetime of McDonalds (saving, investing in education or training for better job) or provide for discretionary spend, which would presumably be the trickle up economics that Yang contends will occur.

    Middle class - presumably UBI isn't a gamechanger, but can provide more discretionary spend to boost economy, help with college savings, or go into retirement savings and accelerate the accumulation of wealth.

    Upper class - UBI is meaningless; just more money into the savings account or investments.

    Uberwealthy - totally meaningless rounding error.

    Are there studies which shed light on how UBI likely plays out, and whether the behavioral positives outweigh the negatives? I've looked around and don't see anything.
     
  19. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Here's my perspective. Don't know how much Yang would agree.

    The first thing is I would encourage everyone to get rid of the bias towards working. People don't have to have a job to have meaning in life. People wring their hands a lot about UBI making people "lazy" and getting jealous that they work and somebody else doesn't have to. It used to be that we really did need to work if we wanted to eat. But our GDP per capita has multiplied a thousand times in just the last 150 years, and it wasn't too shabby even back then. It'll be okay if we paint all day while some robot does all the work our grandfathers would have had to do for themselves. That's why we invented this stuff.

    Now, how will people act? Unemployed people can remain unemployed if they think they can live on $12k, which I doubt (I'd actually want UBI at $18k and pegged to inflation, but whatever). If they don't have the skills to get a job that pays enough to make it worth working, I'm fine with them not working, forever if they want. They can also use the cushion to give them the space they need to get education or training to get a job that does pay.

    I doubt low-wage earners would quit jobs and by happy with $12k. That's not enough money to be content. But, they would have some flexibility to quit a job and take some training so they can re-enter the workforce with more skills. For them and for middle wage earners both, I think it could actually have some depressive effect on wages. But, I'm not sure it's a bad thing to shift some of your earning power from working to existing.

    The trouble that I actually fear the most is what it'll do to the immigration debate. If you think it's bad now, wait until you start giving money to anchor babies. The white nationalists will flip out. Even the sober-minded conservatives will flip out. Some liberals will even flip out. They'll think Trump was some kind of visionary to want to build a wall. There will be all kinds of fights about who "deserves" to be a citizen, and probably all kinds of racial injustice will result.

    The other thing I'd worry about are dumb policy compromises. Someone like an Elizabeth Warren will want a means test to make sure we aren't "wasting" money by giving it to rich people. Someone like a Donald Trump will want to put a work requirement on it to make sure we don't have any free riders by giving it to people who don't try to work or have a felony conviction and don't, in his view, contribute anything to society. I think those are both traps we can fall into that would pretty much ruin the entire enterprise.
     
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  20. Rileydog

    Rileydog Contributing Member

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    JV,

    Very interesting thoughts. The two that stand our are the one about changing the focus on work, and the one about anchor babies. I think both are fatal to Yang's chances and both would be heavily and effectively exploited by any political opponent.

    Work is such an ingrained part of American society that UBI is a non-starter. It's the ultimate, unconditional welfare. I don't disagree with your premise that there should be more prosperity to go around if robots can do the work for us. But it's a hell of a mindshift to undertake, and I don't think it can be done unless there is a equally compelling, clear and present force that pushes it upon us. Automation is compelling, but for most americans, it is not clear and present enough. Yang's views require forward, macro level thinking. I'm afraid the American public (and that of many other countries) isn't capable of it.

    As to the anchor babies, that's also low hanging fruit. Unless he has a proposal to limit immigration, I think UBI and his candidacy is dead on arrival. I think there can be no question that UBI would be a huge incentive for central americans to try to come to the US. It would provide a quantum leap in quality of life that is worth risking everything for.
     

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