The team can barely function without Lebron, which means that AD should campaign for MVP votes? Lol, no one would buy that BS. He ain’t Kobe. AD’s impact isn’t what his statline indicates it should be, which is 1 of the main reasons he was always missing the playoffs and why the Lakers are mediocre at best when Bron isn’t on the floor. He has no case whatsoever for being in the MVP discussion.
Under JVG, the Rockets could barely function without McGrady. I think we were something like 1-9 when TMac sat. Our offense was pretty much give the ball to TMac and let him do his things, or force it inside to Yao. After Adelman changed the system, they could start winning without TMac. Yao was totally capable of leading a winning team if the coach knew how to design a system for him. And the Rockets were nowhere near the talent level of the Shaq-Kobe or the LeBron-AD Lakers.
this doesn’t counteract my point that AD has no business being in the MVP convo over Bron...we’ve seen how AD does with his own team...couldn’t even get 40 wins most years
For the record, I am not an AD fan or a LeBron fan. If anything, I am a certified Lakers hater. So naturally I don't want either of them being good. Your point does not hold water if AD is better than LeBron in almost every category. You argument is about whether AD could lead a LeBron-less team to win. But winning has a lot of things involved. My point is that coaching is a big part of whether a player, especially a big man (because big men need to be fed the ball in the right way), can lead a team to winning. Even more important is what kind of team you have. I've said it countless times here. Winning and losing is a team thing, not an individual thing. Using team success and failure without any context to measure an individual player's greatness is just lazy. The TMac-Yao analogy shows that it is much easier for a coach to rely on a star perimeter player to create offense. It takes ingenuity to use a great low post player without a great perimeter creator. Adelman was a great offensive coach, much more so than MDA imo. And Rudy T's genius has always been underrated. He was the pioneer of using four shooters to free up the interior for his star center to operate. Horry was the "stretch 4" before the concept of stretch 4 was popularized, although I must admit that there were some outside shooting PFs before Horry.
If LeBron resumes playing at an elite level and winning I have no problem with him being awarded MVP.
Going by how voters will vote. MVP and RotY are pretty much a lock. MVP - Giannis Rookie - Ja. (Zion didn't play enough games) --- The other two categories are a bit of a toss up 6th man - Lou (+150), Montrezl (+175), Shroder (+200) Defensive player of the year - Giannis (-480) and AD (+260). Gobert, Simmons, Embid and Kawahi are distant.
Giannis's numbers are epic and the Bucks were on pace to get 70 wins with a ridiculous point differential. I just don't see why you give the MVP to LeBron. I mean, just imagine if LeBron was averaging those numbers and the Lakers were dominating the NBA.
I would vote for lebron. It seems like the talking heads dont care about playmaking/assists. Giannis is still nowhere close in that category
I don't see LeBron's MVP merit in leading the league in assists. He is the new Wilt. He is talented enough to be able to decide that he's going to do something like lead the league in assists and do it. I could listen to the LeBron is MVP Nash argument, but I remember Nash's seasons were about way more than numbers. He and MDA seemed to be changing the league. LeBron is doing more of the same he's always done with an emphasis on racking up assists. To your point though, LeBron isn't near the defender Giannis is and the gaps between their assists and rebounds are similar. Giannis is also doing what he's doing in 5 fewer minutes. Most of the talking heads pushing for LeBron are obvious plants, IMO.
Giannis probably just deserves it any other year, but circumstances matter. He's not good enough to win back-to-back and they've done Lebron like they did MJ before and given his age, Lebron is definitely deserving.
Giannis is doing it in the LEAST, beats up crap teams 3x more than Lebron. East has like 4 decent teams Bucks, Miami, Celts, Raps. The rest are trash Orlando? Detroit? Pacers? Hornets? Gimme a break man. West every other team besides GSW this year is decent. Even Sacramento and Minny who are bottom feeders actually have stars on their squad. Bron deserves MVP Lakers need him more than Bucks need Giannis. If Giannis goes down to injury Bucks would still be a top team (look at Toronto) if Bron goes down the Lakers end their season as well.
I think Lebron deserves it. 10 plus assists ain't no joke. Yes, Harden deserved it when lead the league in Assists also.
When a team has the best record or one of the best records, the best player on those teams always receives serious MVP consideration. The Bucks not only have that, but they also have a historic point differential. Ignoring the relative strengths of conferences when considering the team's performance of an MVP candidate is normal. In fact, LeBron James himself benefited from this precedent with Cleveland and Miami. You said some other stuff that isn't correct or I don't agree with, but it doesn't really matter because MVP voters don't bother too much with strength of conference. Most of that is for us to discuss, but players have always won MVPs and championships from the weaker conference, including LeBron James. Did you know that the main difference between the championship favorite Lakers of this season and the mediocre Lakers of last season is not LeBron, but Anthony Davis? Without Davis, the Lakers are the same mediocre team they were last season. Not saying Davis is their MVP, it's clearly LeBron, but Davis is basically their workhorse leading the Lakers in points and rebounds and is a strong DPoY candidate. The reason why the Raptors are still a top team is that they run a system that didn't depend on Kawhi and they have talent on and off court to work with. They needed Kawhi to win the championship, but not to be a top team. The Bucks also run a system, but Giannis does a lot more for them as far as rebounding and team defense go apart from his ridiculous scoring and playmaking. So they are less likely to remain a top team. On the other hand, every team LeBron has been on runs the LeBron system. He does all the thinking for the team like its CPU so when he leaves they have no idea what to do. It is incredible to watch cause he's the only player in history that has done this and won championships, but it isn't real basketball, IMO. It's Lebronball. I noticed that you didn't talk too much about individual performances. Probably because Giannis has clearly been the more productive player and LeBron isn't the most productive player on his own team.
The production is relative because again the East is weaker so it is easier to compile stats so when you use the stats argument, it's easier to get dunks rebs and blocks on Trae Young's team than it is on Ja, Zion and Luka Doncic's teams. I will concede Lebron himself did benefit from all the stat stuffing he can do in the LEAST as did other guys like Jrue Holiday (Allstar in East, nobody in West), D'Angelo Russell (looked like Curry in the East, looks like Jrue Holiday in the West) and Dwight Howard, but at least Lebron during his Miami days are far and away acknowledged as the best and most dominant player in the world. That's not really the case for Giannis cuz Kawhi spanked his ass last season, and then look his numbers this year vs Lebron, Kawhi and Miami. Dude's just a bully compiling stats against crappy teams and players and Bucks are too that's why they couldnt even reach the Finals last year. If AD is so amazing how come NO barely got anywhere with him then? Look at Pau Gasol, he made the Grizzlies go from lotto to consistent playoff teams and that's with trash like old Damon Stoudamire and No Stats Allstar Shane Battier. AD has had good players with him over the years including Jrue Holiday but NO has been horrible, picking in the lotto year after year. Sure AD has been great on the Lakers but thats cuz he makes like half the salary on the squad. It's expected for him to contribute a lot based on what he is making. Giannis is the only max player on the Bucks but they have a lot of really good role players, guys like Brook Lopez and Khris Middleton, these guys aren't scrubs they are a lot better than Javale Mcgee and Rajon Rondo LOL. If you combine the contributions of all the other Bucks players and compare them to AD then it would be similar that's why I don't buy this argument at all. You seem to be talking both sides of your mouth here first Giannis does so much for the Bucks so he deserves MVP but then Lebron does nothing but Lebron ball so he doesn't deserve MVP. Giannis is great cuz when he leaves Bucks are less likely to remain a top team but then Lebron is horrible cuz when he leaves his teams collapse and don't know what to do. You are praising Giannis for the same thing you are slamming Lebron LOL you don't need me to reply to you cuz you are arguing with yourself. Isn't it funny Bucks have a HISTORIC point differential but people don't take them seriously? They're treated the same as the Rockets, a dark horse for the championship compared to both LA teams. The team with both HISTORIC Point differential and former MVP isn't seen as the top contender LMAO. Giannis will most likely win MVP cuz most voters are brain dead but Lebron is the REAL MVP. And after the Bucks fade again this year and Giannis gets his ass spanked again I doubt he gets the MVP nod again next year.
MVP media narratives are always hilarious. "Best Player, Best Team" was the overriding factor last year. Now some are pushing for what LeBron meant specifically to his team. Most of the media should just admit their vote goes to the player story they like the most.
I agree Lebron is getting it because he's the media darling. That said I don't really care and if any season should be asterisked this season should be.. (Unless the Rockets win it all of course. )
