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Mike Hampton should get booed when he comes back!

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Francis3, Dec 23, 1999.

  1. Francis3

    Francis3 Member

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    Did you hear what he said about going to the mets. He was happy and he said that he thinks this is the best team and the mets have the best players in every position and he wants to take them to the world series.

    I say we boo his ass when he comes back.
     
  2. bballfanatic

    bballfanatic Member

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    I'm sorry. I have to disagree. Hampy didn't do anything wrong. He just wanted to test the market, and I don't blame him.

    Of course he says that now that he is traded. The players always say stuff like that to their new team.

    I think Hampy should get a round of applause to show appreciation for what he did for the Astros, especially this last summer.
     
  3. brahma rocket

    brahma rocket Member

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    "take them to a world series" since when does this guy know anything about taking teams to championships. i just hope its baseball night when he comes to town.
     
  4. Azim da Dream

    Azim da Dream Member

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    I'm not sure if Mike Hampton should get booed or not, but I do know John Rocker should get booed loudly not only in Yankee Stadium, but in every ball park he plays in. Hank Aaron sumed it up best, "FOr a guy to make comments like that, he must be a sick, sick individual."

    Azim da Dream
     
  5. popeye

    popeye Member

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    Just for the record.

    DL asked Hampton directly, to give him an honest answer to the question: "If we made you an offer to extend right now,would you take it?"

    Hampy's answer: "Seriously, I think it's time for me to see what other offers are out there. That doesn't mean I wouldn't resign here, though. Okay? "

    DL: "Fair enough."

    Hampton is traded.

    Hampy Hump does not need to explain himself to any one. He was being perfectly honest, as he always has been throughout his life.

    Frankly, it could be argued he got suckered, but that's business. He is not bitter about it. But the New York got good ballplayer. Hell of a great guy.

    Cheers.
     
  6. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Hampton was traded. He didn't do anything to the astros except always have an ERA below 4! The Mets look damn good with him on the team.

    This upcoming contract is his contract that he will be able to retire on. The astros forced his hand by trading him.
     
  7. Dream34

    Dream34 Contributing Member

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    I am with the others who replied that said Mike Hampton did nothing wrong. He had a great year for the Astros. He has always been one of our top 3 pitchers that past 4-5 years. He has always been a top notch competitor. Brings it every night.

    The guy was in the last year of his present contract. He had a career year. When the Astros Management asked him if he wanted to resign a multiyear contract he said no and that he wanted to test the Free Agent Market. I can't blame him at all. He deserves to get paid. To see some of the pitchers that suck get paid big bucks shows the value and lack of supply of quality pitchers. Lets not forget that Mike Hampton was also going to be taking a chance by doing this as well if he decided to play out the remainder of the year with the Astros. He could have gotten injured or had a terrible year. That would have brought his value down.

    I really do not see why the guy should be booed. The Astros are going to miss him on their pitching staff and in their lineup (the guy was one good hitter)!
     
  8. bballfanatic

    bballfanatic Member

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    To me if anyone should be booed, it is Drayton McLane for always trading our good players right when we are looking pretty strong.

    He got his new stadium and promptly traded Everett and Hampton. He doesn't care about a championship just money.
     
  9. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I see both sides. If Hampton wants to test the free agent market, fine, that's his right. I'm for it. However, on the other hand, I don't like his perceived "dissing" of my baseball team. We gave him his start, traded Everett in order to sign him, and he blew us off.

    So I will boo, even though I understand and support his right to pursue the market.

    However, anyone that states that the fans should boo Drayton McClane doesn't know much about the state of baseball today. Unfortunately, there's no salary cap or revenue sharing. The big market teams like New York, Los Angeles, and Atlanta can afford to keep all of their players when they become free agents. However, despite Houston's size, they aren't necessarily a "big" market. They can't afford to resign every player that becomes a free agent. They decided to keep one of the two main free agents next year in Hampton by trading Everett. They got the shortstop prospect they wanted whenever he came out of college. They unwisely assumed that they would then resign Hampton. However, Hampton threw a slider and said he wouldn't resign. So instead of letting him go like Kile two years ago, they thought they'd get something in return for him...and drop Bell in the process.

    All in all, the trade is an excellent one for the Astros. Believe it or not, Baseball Prospectus calls the new Astros pitching staff the most exciting in all of baseball with the Outlaw, the Wrangler, Shane, Lima, No-tell Dotel, and Chris "the record doesn't say it all" Holt. Dotel should thrive under Dierker and Rhule. We get Cedeno, a young speedy outfielder who should prosper in our huge center field. We get rid of 6 million dollars in waste named Bell. It was a great trade.

    Please don't tell me Drayton doesn't want to win a championship though.
     
  10. Exciting....maybe, but worth a championship run, hardly.

    Chris Holt, is horrible, plain and simple. The guy loses leads, and is shelled oftenly in the first few innings.

    Shane is slightly better than an average pitcher. He doesn't have enough heat on his fastball to keep good hitters honest, and splitter is too inconsistent to be an every day effective pitch. Which is problably why he slumps at the end of years.

    Dotel...Cmon. The guy isn't even considered a hot prospect. As of now, his close to 6 era sums things up just about right.

    Leaving Wagner, who is awesome. Lima, who doesnt command games like an all star. Elarton, who I believe in time has all the tools to be great.

    Lets not forget how weak the Astros middle relief is. Actually it was pretty horrible last year.

    Right now, at best the Astros staff shoul recieve about a C or C- overall grade. With Hampy they had a B+ staff. With Middle relief keepig the Stros from an A staff.

    The way I see it is now Boston has a trade that when people mention the Bagwell-Anderson trade, they can say "Yeah but we made out almost as good with the Everett deal"

    And trading Hampy to the Mets, who only needed one great starting pitcher to go to the show, was as bad as the Rox sending Pippen to a Western Conference Foe (dont make a trade to a team in your League, ie: the Mariners with Randy). You just don't make a deal that can put a team over the top, unless your getting equal talent back. And hardly, in either deal, did the Astros get that.
     
  11. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Dotel not a hot prospect? I guess you know more about baseball than Hunsicker and Dierker. That's why they did that trade. Dotel is in fact a hot prospect with a Wagner type fastball.

    Shane Reynolds just a little better than average? Again, just like you know more about basketball than Rudy T, you must know more than Dierker and Rhule, two of the best pitching scouts around. He's been the number 1 starter for a reason, because he's much more than a little better than average.

    If Holt gets some run support, his record is much better. His ERA in the second half of '99 was around 3.00, if not better. If that's horrible in your book, you have unrealistic expectations.

    The middle relief is not as bad either. With a healthy Henry, Cabrera for the entire year, and Powell, we have one of the best bullpens in the league.

    We can win a championship with this pitching staff. Just look at the Braves. Arguably the best pitching staff of all-time, but only 1 championship. Put the prospect Dotel with pitching gurus like Dierker and Rhule, and he's going to replace Hampton in a few years, I believe. We can do it with our lineup, the best 1-5 in the league in my opinion, and a much better than average pitching staff.

    [This message has been edited by Rocketman95 (edited January 01, 2000).]
     
  12. Major

    Major Member

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    dreamshake, you don't follow baseball much, do you?

    Our starting staff:

    Lima: Won almost 40 games in the last 2 years... That's as much as any pitcher in MLB.

    Reynolds: Our most consistent pitcher... Will probably end the season as the #3 pitcher on the team - and one of the best #3 pitchers in the league.

    Elarton: Showed last season that he can be absolutely dominating. Was hurt by the flipping roles between relief and starter and had a bad shoulder the entire second half of the reason. Probably will end the season as our #2 starter.

    Dotel: Considered one of the top pitching prospects in the country. Went 8-3 last year, and was absolutely dominating when he was "on". Was the centerpiece of any Griffey trade, and with Dierker & Ruhle's guidance, could be incredible within 2 or 3 seasons. One of the league leaders in strikeouts per hitter last year.

    Holt: Much as you might not like him, he was about a league-average pitcher in ERA, making minimum wage. He was also one of the best #5 starters in baseball. His run support was the lowest in all of baseball. Late in the season, even after all the crap that happened to him, his ERA was lower than pitchers such as Roger Clemens and Tom Glavine. And just a tad cheaper.

    I'd say that's a pretty damn good staff. Some other teams will have a better #1 guy, but we'll be better #2-#5. Everyone pulled the same "our staff will suck next year" crap when we lost Kile, and again when we lost Randy Johnson.. Each year, the staff got better.

    As far as middle relief, yes, it sucked for the 2nd half of last year. Henry was coming off surgery, Elarton had shoulder problems, Cabrera wasn't here yet. This year, probably a different story though. Powell, Cabrera, and Henry make up a formidable group, along with Wagner to close out games. Add a lefty or two (and we now have the money if want to spend it) and lose Williams and Miller, and you have all that's needed -- and a group as good as any in baseball.

    In addition, the offense has the potential to be stronger if we don't have 8-10 players in the injured list all season. We get 4 starters back in Caminiti, Alou, Hidalgo, and Melusky to replace Russ Johnson, Berkman/whoever, Bell, and Bako. Add in Roger Cedeno's hitting and speed, and a full season of Ward, and we have an incredible lineup. At one point last year, all 6 of our opening day outfielders, along with our 3rd baseman, catcher, and shortstop were injured -- assume that won't happen again, and the offense should be good.

    The Astros will be fine this year -- and they'll be better with a smaller payroll, leaving plenty of options for next year's huge free agent pool.
     
  13. Rocketman95...somehow I knew youd come riding to the rescue of any Houston sports decisions. Hey the way your going, the Chronicle might hire you for inspiration along with Michael Murphy. Noone in their right mind see these trades as "Imroving" their team. Its a money thing. Make loads more of it with the new stadium, and pay out less through payroll. I guess you know more than every other baseball expert who considered these horrible deals then right? Hey heres a game for you Rocketman95. Instead of Everett and Hampton, what if it were Bagwell and Biggio who were traded. Would you still claim that the Stros know what they are doing and striving to make the team better?

    Shanna...Maybe I haven't watched alot of baseball by some peoples standards. I have watched every possible Astros game I can since ohhh around 81. And probably watch or witness over 100 games a year that don't include the Stros. I played ball for 12 years. Coached a bit. I think I have a pretty good eye when it comes to noticing whats going on in Baseball.

    All I have to say is for as decent as Holt is, look at his record. I can remember one really well pitched game from him all of last year (against the tribe). Your basic average pitchers dont lose 85 percent of their games.

    Lima. Yeah I love him. Wouldnt trade him for just about anything short of a Maddux. Just based on his fire and competiveness. But lets not get carried away. Lima struggles against the finer hitters. And is almost the top dog in Home runs allowed over the last two years. He's definately been the beneficiary of a potent Astros lineup the last two years. Dont know the figure off the top of my head, but I bet ya he gets some really good run support.

    Shane Reynolds. Here's a guy that was just begging for the season to end at about the all star break. His heater is clocked at around, what 88 miles an hour. Like I said, not that great. He has 2 pitches and thats about it for the repitoire. Splitter, fastball. His curve and off speed stuff is not good at all. He's lived off of his splitter way too long. Its time to work on another pitch, because last year, teams were figuring him out real fast.

    Funny how Dotel is all that, yet had what a 6 era? I never said in time he might not be great. But right now, no one fears him, or his touted heat. You are seriously mistaken if you think Dotel=Hampton.

    As far as the Astros middle relief. It was nothing short of tragic. I hope to never see the likes of Brian Williams ever again, or Jay Powell. Last year Doug Henry had a miserable season that was sandwiched around a long stint on the IR. The Astros Middle relief was the shortcoming of the team for the entire season. I do like Jose though.

    Ward in the outfield everyday...Sorry not going to happen in an outfield with Cedeno, Hidalgo, Alou, Berkman (who the astros like the idea of having in the outfield much more than Ward)
     
  14. Major

    Major Member

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    Dreamshake,

    I guess you know more than every other baseball expert who considered these horrible
    deals then right?


    Not sure who you're referring to here, but most nat'l sports publications thought Houston got a great deal out of a pretty bad situation. Columnists did gripe though, without the facts as usual.

    Instead of Everett and Hampton, what if it were Bagwell and Biggio who were traded. Would you still claim that the Stros know what they are doing and striving to make the team better?

    Actually, if that could have been done, it would have been even better. Biggio is on the decline of his career, and if you could keep Hampton for Biggio-money, you'd be crazy not to do so in a heartbeat. But Hampton wants Kevin Brown money, and Houston doesn't have that. (This is from a pure baseball performance standpoint and ignores loyalties which would have made that impossible anyway)

    All I have to say is for as decent as Holt is, look at his record. I can remember one really well pitched game from him all of last year (against the tribe). Your basic average pitchers dont lose 85 percent of their games.


    If you only remember one well-pitched game, you didn't see many of his games. Holt's post-allstar-break record was 4-3. His 3 losses? 4-2, 2-1, 3-1. When your team scores 4 runs in 3 games, going 0-3 is not your fault. His record is a lot worse than his pitching. Like I said, he's one of the best #5 starters in baseball. And he costs nothing.

    Shane Reynolds. Here's a guy that was just begging for the season to end at about the all star break. His heater is clocked at around, what 88 miles an hour. Like I said, not that great. He has 2 pitches and thats about it for the repitoire.

    Again, he's an above-average pitcher, fits in as #3 in our rotation. And he's one of the better #3's in the league. He was also the starting pitcher in our only 2 playoffs wins the past two years. What do you want, 5 #1 pitchers?

    Funny how Dotel is all that, yet had what a 6 era? I never said in time he might not be great. But right now, no one fears him, or his touted heat. You are seriously mistaken if you think Dotel=Hampton.

    No one said Dotel = Hampton. What he is is a good rookie that costs much less than Hampton. Every scout in America thinks he has superstar-potential. Dotel was an untouchable except for a superstar in return. Do you know something they don't?

    As far as the Astros middle relief. It was nothing short of tragic.

    Agreed.

    I hope to never see the likes of Brian Williams ever again, or Jay Powell.

    Powell is one of the best relief pitchers in the country. He had a 2.xx ERA in '98 and has WS experience (winner of game 7 in '97). He's young and has great stuff. Needs to be more aggressive, but there's no reason he can't be dominant again. He had an off-year last year. Who knows about Williams -- he had injury problems, but he's probably gone anyway.

    Last year Doug Henry had a miserable season that was sandwiched around a long stint in the IR.

    That's what happens when you have elbow-surgery mid-season... He was excellent towards the end of the season and in the playoffs.

    Ward in the outfield everyday...Sorry not going to happen in an outfield with Cedeno, Hidalgo, Alou, Berkman (who the astros like the idea of having in the outfield much more than Ward)

    You may be surprised. Berkman will most likely be in AAA next year -- he showed last year that he wasn't ready for the majors (neither hitting nor fielding), and he needs to be batting everyday. There are a lot of rumblings that Alou will be traded - possibly to Pittsburgh -- in the coming weeks. (Alou and management have serious disagreements) Ward won't likely be our everyday outfielder, but he'll definitely be in the 4 man rotation, our backup for 1st base (all players will be getting more rest throughout the year in 2000), and our #1 RH pinch hitter. If he does well, look to see him earn a starting job.

    In terms of pure talent, no, this team doesn't compare to '99. Then again, the '99 team -- without injuries -- could have won 105-110 games. Last year's team, without half the team for most of the year (Caminiti, Alou, Hidalgo, Melusky, Ricky on DL twice, Everett on DL twice, etc), won 96 games. This team is more than capable of winning 100 games if the prospects turn out decently. Given that we had never done that 3 years ago, I'd say that would be a pretty good season...
     
  15. Major

    Major Member

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  16. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Contributing Member

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    So with all of this extra cap space we have now, what are the odds we could get Griffey?


    Sorry, wrong terminology. Not cap space, just extra money.
    ------------------
    Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans
    302

    [This message has been edited by Lynus302 (edited January 05, 2000).]
     
  17. Lynus...Wasn't sure if you were kidding
    or not but baseball has no Salary cap.

    Shanna...Point is, as is the Astros had a
    shot of 100+ wins in the upcoming season,
    allowing Guitty to walk and implanting a
    Russ Johnson, or Tim Bogar, would not of
    made a difference. I am a firm believer
    that without the injuries (as many as
    they were) Bags, and Bigg, would not of
    had to play so many games and probably
    would of been fresher for the series
    against the Braves. Heck I surely
    thought a WS was inevitable.

    So why trade a player like Everett,
    before you have to? Sure his new
    contract would of been large, but for as
    much as I watched, he was a sure fire
    thing for the future of this team. A
    complete 5 tool player, who was the
    Astros most complete hitter for the
    course of the season. From what I
    gathered he loved playing in Houston, and
    if he continued to show drastic
    improvement, as he has for his first 2
    seasons in Houston, he might of been a
    .330 hitter, with over 40 homeruns, and
    120+ ribbi's. Especially now that the
    Stros are out of the Death Dome. Why
    take a bunch of unprovens, for what you
    know you have allready? Why not make
    another run at a series with the talent
    they had, which Should of put them over
    the Mets, Braves, and Diamondbacks, this
    year (barring a series of mind boggling
    injuries like last year).

    What I see in Dotel right now, is Aurthur
    Rhodes. So far, he hasn't proven he can
    come close to being a good or solid
    everyday pitcher. His era around 6 is
    testimony, and his nearly 6 walks per 9
    innings shows a problem with control. So
    basically the Astros are hoping. Hoping
    that Everett (the Shortstop) gains some
    serious pop in his bat, and that Dotel
    will gain some serious control. Hope
    never supplants sure fire all stars, or
    cy young pitching.

    At very least, let those two stay until
    the trading deadline, and when teams are
    desperate to gain a 5 tool player, or a
    cy young pitcher to put them over the
    top, see what you can milk of an opposing
    team.

    You mean to tell me a package of Hampton,
    and Everett, would of landed the Astros a
    player of Ken Griffey standards? Easily.
    If you going to get rid of both, package
    them together to get yourselves the
    Catcher, and shortstop (the Astros two
    weakest positional spots) who have proven
    themselves winners.

    Right now the Astros are hoping that
    players like

    Meluesky
    Bogar
    Cedeno
    Dotel
    Holt
    Wade???
    and Elarton

    are going to bring them a title? Of
    these guys only Cedeno has come close to
    being an every day player. Bogar doesn't
    have the bat to be batting 9th im most
    instances. Holt has 25 loses over the
    last 2 years (that he's played), in
    limited action. Elarton, who I believe
    will be good soon, has struggled in a
    starters role, Cedeno, has about as much
    pop as 3 day open soda. But Shold be a
    decent acquisition. Wade, proved he
    wasn't ready yet. And Meluesky seems to
    need more time also.

    If the Stros keep Alou, I am expecting
    about 88 wins from this team, at best.
    If they aquire some decent middle relief.
    Henry is getting too old to get it done
    on a regular basis. And by all accounts,
    so far Powell is looking more and more
    like that ex braves reliever who lost
    everything in one year.

    Cammy is showing his age more and more
    everyday (even though he was the only one
    to show up for the series against the
    Braves) Injuries are always a concern
    with him.

    Right now, the I don't forsee a playoffs
    from the Stros this year. With the Reds,
    Braves, Mets, and Diamondbacks all being
    better squads right now.

    But as one lifetime Astros fan to another
    here's to hope and belief.
     
  18. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Contributing Member

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    Dreamshake-
    Yes, I'm serious. I am a baseball fan, but I'm not into it enough to know anything about how much someone expects to make a year. I know K. Brown signed a contract for over 100 million, but I don't know over how many years.

    Yes, I know that there is no cap in baseball, and I know that the Astros are not a major market team, and I know that the 'Stros have supposedly been losing money over the last few years, and I know that with losing Hampton and Bell's salaries we have freed up roughly $10 million, but what I don't know is how much money Ken Griffey Jr. stands to make next season. I figure no one cares to pay him that much money, otherwise he would most likely be somewhere by now. It would seem that if he wants to be near his family so bad, he would consider taking a little less money. After all, Houston is only like a two hour flight to Florida.

    So I'll ask the freaking question again: Does anyone think we have a chance to sign Griffey? I read on ESPN.com that with the extra money, Houston will now prepare for the "huge free-agent pool," so I figured it was a fair question, whether Griffey is FA or not.

    ------------------
    Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans
    302

    [This message has been edited by Lynus302 (edited January 05, 2000).]
     
  19. grummett

    grummett Contributing Member

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    Lynus302- Griffey has one year left on his current contract for around 8.5 mill. As a 10 and 5 player in MLB, he can veto any trade to any team. He has publicly stated, check that, his agent has stated, that he will only approve a trade to his hometown Reds. The Reds and Mariners are currently in a stalemate over players to be traded for Jr. The Astros have .0001% chance of landing Jr. even if McLane was willing to pay upwards of 15 mill/year. He apparently won't approve a trade to Houston.
     
  20. Lynus302

    Lynus302 Contributing Member

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    Grummet-
    Thank you.

    ------------------
    Proud Cheerleader 'til we move to New Orleans
    302
     

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