1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Looking ahead: The long-term scandal fallout

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by topfive, Jan 17, 2020.

  1. MystikArkitect

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2006
    Messages:
    10,484
    Likes Received:
    15,758
    Genuinely wonder if the Yankees had done this instead of the Astros, how quickly it would've been swept under the rug.
     
    House Rockets and lw17 like this.
  2. Poloshirtbandit

    Joined:
    May 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,928
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    I'm curious if say Correa or Bregman had left to NYY as a free agent this year instead of Cole what their reaction would be.
     
  3. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    I think you may have missed the context of this part of the discussion. Of course there's proof of cheating in '17-'18. (And the videos are not circumstantial evidence--they are solid
    I think you may have missed the context of this part of the discussion.

    First: the videos from 17-18 are not circumstantial evidence; they are a much stronger evidence than that. What would one call it--definitive evidence, maybe? Pretty solid stuff. ☹️ Proof, indeed.

    Second: my point was there's no proof of cheating in 2019. Because there's not. And I won't stop saying it, until there is. But currently, there's not. So, I'll say it again: there's no proof the Astros cheated in 2019.
     
  4. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    Sorry for the weird "false start" post; something strange on my phone. The initial stuff I typed disappeared; I thought it was gone.
     
  5. raining threes

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2008
    Messages:
    12,578
    Likes Received:
    8,199
    Time to bring Whitley and that 100 mph fastball up.
     
  6. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    181
    They did and it has been.
     
    BigM likes this.
  7. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    181
    Fair enough. If I missed part of the convo that gave context to your comment, no worries. I just often see this "where is the proof beyond a shadow a doubt" rhetoric (not that you said that...). The videos are circumstantial evidence though, you can't see any cheating, you have to draw inferences, as opposed to a confession, for example, or a video of verlander shooting fiers.
     
  8. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Messages:
    8,506
    Likes Received:
    181
    I agree, and actually think it may be the kind of thing that brings public opinion back to neutral. They hit us, we retaliate. Public is going to say good for us. Maybe we should reserve one roster spot for a total goon. Also, would be a good time to start crowding the plate and take some of those bases.
     
    raining threes and cmoak1982 like this.
  9. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    12,918
    Looking ahead....to me a lot depends on how the MLB investigation plays out.

    If when its all said and done, MLB makes it look like what the Astros did was way worse than anything before, and others that have cheated in the past are isolated incidents, then perceptually in the minds of much of the public, the Astros will be villains for some time to come. ML players, coaches and staffs know better, but the MLB investigations findings will be the primary narrative for many.

    On the other hand, if MLB investigation is as thorough as they claim it will be, and name enough others that did similar, then that is a different narrative and one we might recover from in a reasonable time.
     
    Htown Legend likes this.
  10. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2003
    Messages:
    12,152
    Likes Received:
    7,403
    Astros need to embrace the WWE-style Heel-turn. Be the OLD Oakland Raiders. Let everyone hate you while you put your boot on their throat. Let the boo.....your homers and kicking their team's ass 10-1...every game.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  11. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    28,719
    Likes Received:
    6,991
    All I can say is I hope to god Whitley can stay clean. It would be a pr disaster if that goes south. We’ve had all kinds of scandals in the minors too that have been selectively forgotten, I think now over 350 game suspensions for Peds/drugs that are just flying under the radar.
     
    #91 PhiSlammaJamma, Jan 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
    raining threes likes this.
  12. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,839
    Likes Received:
    13,895
    When has MLB initially caught anyone? The Athletic caught the Astros. Yankees the Red Sox and vice versa. Astros got caught because Fiers squealed. Other teams have had a chance to circle wagons with players and destroy anything incriminating.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  13. msn

    msn Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    11,726
    Likes Received:
    2,093
    True that. Sucks.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  14. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    10,956
    Likes Received:
    14,706
    Crane should let his billionaire dick swing. Extend Springer. Trade for bad contracts with top prospects, competitive balance draft picks, and international signing bonus pool attached.
     
    raining threes likes this.
  15. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    12,918
    MLB hasnt caught anyone initially because no one was talking. Now that an active investigation is underway, and under immunity btw, lots of players have been interviewed and thus are talking. Now, I dont know what they are all saying, but unless all of them are lying to MLB, then player testimony is plenty to point MLB in directions other than the Astros.
     
    msn likes this.
  16. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 1999
    Messages:
    23,839
    Likes Received:
    13,895
    Is MLB interviewing players on other teams besides the Red Sox? Even then, players don't want to be the first one to be a snitch, and teams have plenty of time to tell players MLB has nothing if they remain silent. "If you talk, look at what people are saying about the Astros. Don't be a Fiers."
     
  17. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    17,056
    Likes Received:
    12,918
    Thing is, several players on the Astros and Red Sox currently were on other teams sometime in their past. I agree snitching isnt something players are keen to do. But Mike Fiers did, and I would find it very unlikely that if you lined up 100 players, everyone of them would give false testimony. It only takes a couple to hint at something to get MLB attention to turn elsewhere.

    As for proof, they dont need it to get a sense of how widespread electronic cheating is. Yes, they need it to levy penalties, but they already have their scapegoats in the Astros and probably Red Sox. So unless another Mike Fiers type confession arises, I would think MLB task beyond the Astros and Red Sox is to get a picture of what they did in the context of what every other team was doing. For this, unproven testimony I would think is enough.

    I wonder what MLB is making of a few ex players/managers talking about cheating in the past. I dont remember names, but more than one has come out.
     
    #97 jim1961, Jan 23, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now