Its Time to Move On from all the Russian Collusion Nonsense

are you a birther?

 

are you?

 

its a simple yes or no

if you refuse to answer then juss say you refuse to share if you're a birther or not

 

I'm not answering some bullshit question. "Juss" saying.

 

He's a Breitbarter. Much worse than a birther.

 

Until I came to this forum, I had never heard of Breitbart. Since learning of its existence, I don't read it.

I personally try not to make assumptions about others. I could just as easily accuse you of slavishly reading "Move on" or "Slate" or the "Huffington Post".

But I don't. Because I don't know you other than your postings here. And that wouldn't be either fair or accurate. All I know about you are the following:

1. You are left leaning.
2. You seem to be interested only in insults. Never constructive dialogue.
3. Where I am concerned, your posts serve no purpose other than continuing pointless bickering.

But you keep on doing you CometsWin. Let me know if you're ever interested in debate and discussion.

Good luck.

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/index.php?threads/clinton-cash-everything-for-sale-everything.276579/

You realize you leave a post history with every reply on this forum right? It's not hard to dig up what you've said before and compare it to now.

What I personally don't understand by people like Rocketman1981 and other Trump supporters is the idea that there's nothing to see here regarding the investigation. Why would so many people take guilty pleas if they were career politicians? What do they gain from the guilty pleas especially if it's all fabricated? Would you personally take a guilty plea based on fabricated evidence just to move a bigger investigation along faster for your boss? Seriously. Think that through. I would love to understand the twists and turns you gotta take to make sense that it's all some grand conspiracy to out Trump on baseless accusations.

 

Come on man. I used the Breitbart article to highlight the 15 LEFT LEANING publications that were referenced who were writing about the Clinton Foundation. I only linked the Breitbart article for the simple reason it was easier (rather than spend hours linking and formatting the original articles). I also only used quotes from those same articles throughout the thread, not Breitbart itself (apart from the first post).

I have a 7 year history of posting in Clutchfans with over 6000 posts, many of them in the D&D. I am also a conservative. I suppose if the 1 time I linked Breitbart above makes me a liar and a Breitbarter in your eyes, I'm sure I'll never convince you otherwise.

But I stand by my assertion. I don't visit that site and rarely read their content.

 

I don't mean insult by this but ever since the healthcare threads I just view you as the guy that votes against his own self interests. You wanted health insurance policies that are essentially useless just so it's more affordable for your family even though the coverage provided from these "cheaper" plans are skeleton policies that cover almost nothing. And you think that's a good thing that is, until life happens and you need real health insurance coverage. That's a textbook definition of voting against your self interests IMO because that skeleton policy you're so fervently supportive of won't protect you from bankruptcy when medical bills overwhelm you and your family.

And don't get me wrong, I understand your perspective on this. You think health insurance costs are too high and requiring it federally upsets you because of those costs. You have a family to support, college funds to contribute to for your children and every penny saved is a penny that can go towards something productive. So in your head, not having to pay for real health insurance and getting a skeleton policy frees up money that can be allocated towards other resources that benefit you and your family. Your family is healthy right now. Why do they need real health insurance? You can save that money for something useful right? Except that a real comprehensive healthcare plan is something that's productive and beneficial for you and your family. Is ACA perfect? Absolutely not, but your suggestions regarding it don't aid in mending those existing issues and ultimately they don't benefit you or anyone. I don't get that.

For all the retorts about how you don't drink the Breitbart Kool-Aid you spout similar talking points as that site. I don't label you a racist or anything as is common with a lot of Trump supporter accusations but I don't view you as some ideal champion of conservative ideals either.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I would not be happy to see any impeachment or indictment on only obstruction charges. Obstruction can be a garnish on more substantial charges. But, it's incumbent on the special prosecutor to find and prove the underlying reason why the Trump Admin was obstructing in the first place. It could be as simple as a policy decision to align more closely with Russia with the recognition that it wouldn't be popular. It's okay if that's the policy choice. Lying about it to the FBI during an investigation isn't great, nor is lying to Congress, but there'd be no underlying crime and I'd defer to the presidency in that case. If it is a quid pro quo though, it needs to be shown.

Laws signed by an impeached president do not need to be unwound. We won't be turning back time. He is the 45th president no matter what.

Even if Trump is somehow an innocent victim in all of this, as a citizen I want to feel confident that the special prosecutor did a full investigation, turned over every stone, and is highly confident that there is nothing to charge him with. I have a lot of trust in Mueller and I am ready to accept any conclusions he reaches, but a lot of that trust is built on the expectation that he will be careful and thorough. If he's demonstrably not careful and thorough, my trust will take a big hit.

 

I don't at all see @TheresTheDagger as a birther -- that's an odd leap.

At the same time, sir, no, it's not just about screwing over #45, at least not for me. The only acceptable outcome is getting to the central and relevant truth. What happened, and why the hell did so many people lie about it? Then let's move on, letting the chips fall where they may, most probably in political fall-out.

 

If the collusion is true then he should have never been President. No one's been impeached under that circumstance

 

It'd certainly be unprecedented. But, I don't think it would be appropriate, desirable, or possible to pretend like he was never president. If the next president wants to unwind what Trump has done, he can use his powers to do so just like Trump has used his to dismantle Obama's achievements. But we can't have him un-sign the tax reform bill once he signs it. The duly elected Congress passed that legislation and millions of people and companies will have changed their behaviors to optimize for the new tax reality. You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube.

Besides which, if he did commit a crime in order to win the election, we don't actually know if he would have lost in a but-for world. A crime doesn't necessarily mean the election was illegitimate. I'd see that scenario as a president who committed a high crime, not a candidate who tried to fix an election. Maybe if an indictment came out while he was still president-elect, but not now.

 

I've got one mic-dropping word to use against any of those who are complaining about the time spent on the investigation, the "nothing to see here" crowd, the "let's move on" contingent, etc. Just one word, and this will shut all of you up on the matter. Only one.

Benghazi.

 

If you voted for Trump you are either

1. Wealthy and understand that any idiot can rubber stamp GOP tax bills(these people considered Trump their last choice in the primaries)

2. Are incredibly naive and actually think that Trump was a competent and intelligent self made business man... a man who was the butt of jokes in the 90s and was always known as a scumbag. The whole "Trump is a dumb person's idea of a smart man and a poor person's idea of a successful business man" idea.

3. are a bigot.

4. are an anarchist. Just want to see the world burn.

I can't think of another avenue honestly where someone would vote for Trump. I'm pretty sure some a have a combination of some of those. Number 2 and 3 is shared amongst many Trump voters.

Honestly, it's the crazy GOP unhinged primary voters that allowed Trump. Once he was their nominee the philosophy for many wealthy Republicans was "lets just hope this idiot can last long enough to sign our tax bill".

 

Excepting the populist-leaning swing voters that decided the election, I think most people who voted for him were Republicans that would always vote a straight Republican ticket. And most of those people are quite pleased with the decisions made by the administration, which are universally red meat for the base: from court picks, to immigration laws, to tax cuts for the wealthy, to foreign policy. For any Republican president, those decisions would be acts of political suicide, but only because of the backlash it would cause among groups of people who would never vote Republican anyway. With Trump, the base gets so many things they never thought possible, and the more he is demonized by his political opponents and the press, the more they love him, histrionic melodrama be damned.

 

E

Essentially he is the president of his base rather than the United States.

I think that is a very obvious distinction between him and his predecessor Obama would often go out of his way by appointing GOP recommended picks at executive positions in his administration (Ajit Pai is an example).

Trump views people who didn't vote for him as an obstacle rather than a citizen.

 

Past presidents usually made some conciliatory appointments because it made political sense. Trump is not pivoting to gain consensus as most presidents would and I don't think he will do that or keep the more populist campaign promises about rebuilding infrastructure and so on. I don't expect he ever intended to. If you don't like Trump, Trump doesn't like you. If anyone has ever had a narcissist in their family, you know how that dynamic works.

IMHO I think worrying about re-election stands in the way of the making America great again, and he's happy to keep his base happy, but I won't pretend to know what goes on in Donald Trump's mind.

 

^He's doing something right with his approval ratings among Republicans. In fact, he's more unabashed about his policy even though it's mostly aligned with Tea Party nutbags who are of the Palin variety (not necessarily middle aged libertarian, rather more culturally driven through blue collar populism).

I don't think his underlying policy is extreme in the sense that it's not watered down by compromise. His infantile goading, gloating, and self-preening can be considered extreme or grating but you see with the polling that his fans separate behavior from his legislative/executive acts as POTUS.

But hey, what goes around comes around until one side decides they don't want to play anymore.

 

Hey, Trump finally won a "... of the Year" prize...

Politifact names Trump claim that Russian election interference is 'made-up' as 'Lie of the Year'

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...ence-is-made-up-as-lie-of-the-year/ar-BBGF4Et