Is it safe to say Jose Altuve will be the greatest Astro 2nd baseman of all time?

If we had the 2004 lineup withe the 2005 pitching (or healthy 2004 pitching...)

2004 at full strength
LF Biggio
CF Beltran
1B Bagwell
RF Berkman
2B Kent
3B Ensberg
C Ausmus
SS Everett
P Clemens

DH/PH Lamb

 

I think saying he was very bad is a stretch. He was certainly very bad his last 2 seasons but he was still a productive major league hitter from 02-05, and he actually had at least some playoff success which unfortunately eluded him when he was at his best.

I do agree the obsession with round numbers is stupid. 06-07 got him in the hall of fame no doubt about it, but he had an overall worse career because of it.

 

It was a fair question. His injury was a bad one and it impacted his ability to drive the ball. He ended up being out longer than expected and really performed poorly when he came back last year. Then this year when he had soreness and conditioning issues... it was a little scary.

 

I was admittedly not a real believer until 2015, even then I was suspicious for most of the season.

Before 2014 I wasn't even sure if he would be a solid starter. He had little power, he was a careless baserunner, limited defensive range, and no patience at the plate. He had a decent hit tool, but the only way he could be successful was if he became a perennial .300 hitter and the only way he would ever be an impact player was if he were a perennial batting title contender...which is exactly what he f**king did. His window to succeed in a big way seemed so narrow to me.

Then he went ahead developed a little plate disciple and a lot of power to top it off. Never in a million years would have I expected this

 

Altuve has broken almost every mold.

He was freaking sent home because of his height and they thought he lied about his age. That would have stopped 99% of players. How humiliating.

He signs as a non prospect and begins to hit and hit and hit. To the point the Astros had no choice but to bring him up. Even with unbelievable hitting lines he wasn’t considered an elite prospect (except by the people that actually watched him).

He then relies on his speed in the big leagues. He doesn’t walk enough so he works on it and starts walking more.

He plateaus because he doesn’t have extra base power, so he works on his swing.

All the experts predict his prime to be short because he will lose speed. He starts losing speed and he just gets better by hitting for power.

The guy is a platypus... he isn’t supposed to exist, but he is just steadily pathing a first ballot Hall of Fame career. I wouldn’t be shocked if he ends up with 5 batting titles and a few World Series titles... maybe a World Series MVP.

 

Same here, I was on board the Delino DeShields bandwagon, I really thought that Altuve was a mere place holder, till DeShields was ready.... DeShields had a lot of hype after being drafted.

It’s kind of a moot point to say who will have the better career. At this point we’d be assuming Altuve can play at an elite level for the next 8-10 years. But he very well could play at this level, or not! But it doesn’t matter. His impact was colosal regardless.

Altuve has been a quiet leader that has influenced this team with his jubilant persona. Biggio along with Bagwell headed a different style team, much more critical of management, very tough as nails, no frills, maybe not as free and loose ( old school mentality).

I couldn’t say who’s my fact of the two, they were and are awesome.

 

Yeah you really don’t want to bring performance enhancing drugs into this discussion. Far more players used steroids/HGH than fans realize and in the case of players you feel were “clean”, well they often were not; they used other illegal substances.

 

My only caveat about this is why did Biggio need 3000 hits to get to the HOF, and why wasn’t he then a first ballot HOFer?

Altuve is certainly on track to be a first ballot HOFer now. Is it because he won his MVP and hit his prime earlier than Biggio did?

 

Was talking about when D Bell was in the lineup before operation shutdown.

 

I would still take the 2004 lineup over 1998 lineup --

C Brad Ausmus
1B Jeff Bagwell
2B Craig Biggio
SS Ricky Gutierrez
3B Bill Spiers
LF Moises Alou
CF Carl Everett
RF Derek Bell

 

There was also a concern about him regaining his speed, which has been such a vital part of his success. But... here he is... as fast as ever. I don't understand the guy, at all - but he's great.....

 

Eh... I think he took advantage of the move to MMP and hit a lot of cheap homers - which are obviously not INvaluable - but they inflated what were otherwise very bad numbers. He hit 111 HRs his final six seasons - that represents nearly 40% of his career total. Granted, vast majority of his career was in the Dome, etc., but that's a rather big chunk, considering he was 36+years old those years. His on-base percentage those final six seasons was *60* points lower (.324) than what had been his career average to that point (.383).

Yep. He never makes it if he has to retire after the knee injury in '01 - but, IMO, he was a much *better* candidate in '01 than he was in '07. And, again: going in before Bagwell is just unfathomable......... Not his fault but, man..... that taints his induction (for me)

 

For me it taints the moronic voters, not Biggio's induction. I mean, Frank Thomas goes in first ballot and you wait SEVEN FREAKING YEARS on Bagwell, who was Thomas's equal offensively, but played defense and ran bases at an elite level? What in the actual hell?

There is zero defense for that type is stupidity.

 

Billy D!

 

100%

 

If we win the World Series He will be up there with Hakeem.

 

No debate at all.

I forgot about this thread when I made the other. But they're both true. Sorry for the repeat.

 

Can't argue any more (although I've got Bagwell ahead of Biggio).