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[FEDERALIST] Why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Could Be The Left’s Donald Trump

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    deserves its own thread

    http://thefederalist.com/2018/07/25/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-lefts-donald-trump/

    Why Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Could Be The Left’s Donald Trump

    Conservatives hoping Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will become the face of the Democratic Party should be careful what they wish for.
    [​IMG]
    By David Marcus
    July 25, 2018

    I’ll never forget the moment I realized something bizarre was going on with American politics. It was February 2016 and I was at a Donald Trump rally in Manchester, New Hampshire. I wandered around the floor of the arena, chatting with attendees, and then it happened. A young man, maybe about 26, told me, “For me it’s a choice between Trump and Bernie Sanders.” Gobsmacked, I asked him to repeat his statement. Wouldn’t you know, I had heard him correctly.

    On paper few figures appear more dissimilar than Trump and New York Democratic primary upset winner Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, the self-described democratic socialist, but in terms of political style and temperament, the two have much in common. In fact, there is much overlap between these two neophyte candidates.

    Both Trump and Ocasio-Cortez won primaries against the establishment in parties that didn’t want them. Both used social media as the primary tool to do an end-run around those party establishments. Both ride a wave of celebrity that propels them to larger audiences and relevance, and both espouse views that quite recently would have been disqualifying but no longer are.

    Let’s consider each of these points in their turn.

    The Power Of Social Media
    In the few scant years it has existed, no politician, or possibly even entity of any kind, has used social media as successfully as Trump. He used it to achieve what most people thought was impossible. This mainline into the bloodstream of a body politic jonesing for quick fixes made short work of his profound GOP opponents, who, as P.G. Wodehouse would have put it, appeared to lack ginger and the stuff that wins.

    Now, in 2018, it is Ocasio-Cortez who is using social media to take down the elite in her party. It was in no small part a viral video spread on Facebook and Twitter that most helped her take down the powerful Rep. Joe Crowley. Since that victory and her rise to prominence, her social media use has only grown more sophisticated and powerful.

    Yesterday proved a prime example of Ocasio-Cortez’s social media strategy. In reaction to a satirical video from conservative outlet CRTV, which swapped clips from another TV show to make her appear to say things she didn’t say, this was her response:



    In Trumpian style, she took the attack and hit back harder, making her critics look pathetic and weak. She won the exchange in a knockout. This is Trump Social Media 101, a course that, had it been offered at Trump University, could have made that institution rival Princeton.

    The Cult Of Fame
    To her credit, Ocasio-Cortez is in many ways a self-made woman with a good, if exaggerated, backstory. So is Trump. Yes, he was born well off, but he was the one who invented his playboy real estate magnate persona, eventually becoming a reality TV star, then our president. He was the outer borough kid who made good in Manhattan among the elite. Now that outer borough resident is Ocasio-Cortez.

    Ocasio-Cortez didn’t have the advantage of being a reality TV star, but she had the next best thing. She’s a young woman with an attractive brand that draws attention and accolades. Our society is the house in which female charisma can live.

    As we found out, the going can be tough for a qualified older woman. This may sound cynical or even sexist, but there is a reason our top movie stars have always been mainly men in their 50s and women in their 20s. This is not to take away from Ocasio-Cortez’s success, merely to say she has some marketable advantages, like Trump.

    Acceptable Discourse
    Time and again during the 2016 campaign, Trump said things that most people thought were disqualifying: his remarks about David Duke, suggestion that judges of Mexican descent can’t be fair and honest, and eventually his thoughts on what famous men are allowed to grab. But so desperate, it turned out, were the people for change that norms were abandoned and he paid little political price.

    Not so long ago, praising socialism was a similar third rail in American politics. The idea that the federal government would become a kind of parent of the people, paying for them and setting the rules of the household, was a nonstarter. Yet the genocidal horrors of Marxism and mortal threat of the Soviet Union seem like old timey ideas now. That was then. Maybe it will work this time.

    To conservatives who laugh and say, “Go ahead, progressives, vote for the socialist,” I’d urge caution. Plenty of progressives said, “Go ahead, conservatives, vote for the guy with the arguably racist rhetoric.” As the old saying goes, who’s laughing now?

    The greatest fear conservatives should have about Ocasio-Cortez is that she will normalize Marxism in a way that even Sanders never could have dreamed of. Sander’s socialism is also something of a different breed, one that at least nominally places value on individual rights. Ocasio-Cortez has not been clear about any fidelity to the Constitution and its protections. She may well believe in a central government that makes Sander’s vision look like an Ayn Rand novel.

    As I learned in New Hampshire, what feels like several decades ago now, the appeal of Trump, Sanders, and Ocasio-Cortez is based less in a belief that they have the answers, and more in a belief that the status quo is broken beyond repair and we need something — anything — new. This is a dangerous attitude that makes little sense given the peace, prosperity, and wellbeing most Americans enjoy today.

    Ocasio-Cortez is 28 years old and is about to win a congressional seat in a district more blue than Billie Holiday at a funeral. She could hold the seat for half a century. The question is whether she will bring her party along with her into the philosophy of Marx. There is a good chance she can. Trump’s great success is good reason for us to worry she can be very successful doing that nationally.

    David Marcus is the Federalist's New York Correspondent and the Artistic Director of Blue Box World, a Brooklyn based theater project. Follow him on Twitter, @BlueBoxDave.
     
  2. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    The obviously satire video they are talking about only makes Ocasio-Cortez look a little bit less intelligent than the actual interview they took her answers from.....I don't see why so many are freaking out about it.
     
  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    "into the philosophy of Marx," LOL. Exaggerate much?

    I get the author's point, but get back to us when she has fifty years of stiffing employees, declaring bankruptcies, faking universities and defrauding would-be students, establishing a pattern of sexual assault, bragging about it, and oh also getting cozy with the New York mafia. Then it will make for a better comparison. ;)
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    It's not an exaggeration though, she is an actual socialist so if she's not an outright Marxist, then she's a Neo-Marxist and I doubt she'd even deny it.

    Now that said, she's obviously not very bright, so I don't think she's thought out her positions very well....but isn't that the case with literally every Marxist or Neo-Marxist?
     
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  5. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Two threads in two days on this by Os_Triggered
     
  6. Big MAK

    Big MAK Member

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    The last thing the Left needs is to embrace the ideology of the far left.
     
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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    good one ;)
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    She isn't the left's Donald Trump.

    She is a foil to the far right so the media lovers her.

    Further she is attractive, young and a minority.... that sells in the current atmosphere.
     
  9. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Not really. Ocasio-Cortez got a win among Democrats in New York City. Trump got a win nation-wide in a general election. The gulf of electoral success between Trump and Ocasio-Cortez makes this comparison a bit ridiculous. Never mind the fact she's running for an office on which voters are not going to care very much about her ideological associations. I don't think a socialist can begin to hope to get the same sort of buy-in in other parts of the country or in wider races. I see her as a product of New York City, not any national political phenomenon.
     
  10. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Yeah but that's exactly why they'll eventually hate her. Like you said she's a perfect foil for the right and that'll help them hold on to power. Nancy Pelosi has been used in the past, but Ocasio-Cortez is just a gold mine for any Republican running for election in everything other than the most blue districts.
     
  11. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Yes, if I am a Republican running in the suburbs I will bring up Ocascio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders and shove down everyone's throat that they are socialists.

    Likewise if I am a Democrat running I am going to bring Trump up at every turn and point out his flaws.

    I am sure the DNC would have rather seen the incumbent win that district.

    We have seen the Republican party undergo serious internal ideological fighting as the party has drifted from what it has been for 35 years.

    The Democrats are having the same issues.
     
  12. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    So far AOC seems like the new center left. A long overdue tectonic shift of changing "Democrat" from meaning "Republican Lite" to having its own bold ideas based on facts and not apologizing for them.

    She's not a reflection of or response to Trump, who is the embodiment of a political allergic reaction that will soon sputter and implode.

    She's charting her own path and as long as she stays focused on a populist message and avoids chasing identity politics or running as "Anti Trump" she'll get their, and so will everyone else running on this movement.
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Well, Bernie isn't actually a socialist, he just says he is. That's why Ocasio-Cortez is relevant, she says she's a socialist and she really is. Bernie Sanders is still a capitalist, he just supports radically more social programs....but he wants to stick with capitalism. Ocasio-Cortez hopes to transition from capitalism to socialism. That's just obscenely radical and dangerous which is why highlighting her views will be so effective in all but the bluest of districts. Of course the Democrats will bash their opponents by going after Trump, but so far that hasn't proven to be very effective for whatever reason. Any normal politician would be forced into exile for even a fraction of what Trump has done and said, but nothing sticks to him probably because the assumption is that he's a scumbag.

    WOW. You are really trying to call an outright socialist "center left"? That's insane. If being an outright socialist is "center left", what the hell would far left be?
     
  14. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    The ideology of free healthcare and livable wages? Of affordable education?

    I'm just going to say it once more, the more people act like she's pushing radical policies the more you give her a stage and the more you highlight these ideas.

    The article has one thing right, the more she gets attacked the more followers she gets, the more popular she gets, and her ideas get out there.
    I mean, look at this...



    This is framed as Dems LOSING their mind...running on livable wages...

    I feel like people are always doing the false equivalence thing and equating Ocasio to far left. Really, she's just left. It seems like she's far left because on the political scale, the American center has always leaned right. Obama would have been seen as a center-right politician in Europe. That's just a fact.

    So yes, in relation to recent liberal leaders Ocasio and Berniecrats must seem like 'Radical' leftists...but there is nothing radical to what they have been pushing. You can look at polls for that truth.

    Ocasio is nothing like Trump. As mentioned earlier, Trump is a bad person, nothing so far says that Ocasio is. Trump won the general election, Ocasio won a primary for a congress seat. Trump also isn't even as far right as people make him out to be, he's doing what his party tells him to do, BUT he has enabled racism, xenophobia, and outright fascists to run for office.

    If the Democrats want to lose more elections they could ignore Ocasio's message. Continue to try and get conservatives to vote for you, which is, btw, what they want which is why they are freaking out over Ocasio and Bernie (As other progressives have won primaries and may win seats...) and continue to ignore the generation that could give your party wins. The Millennial generation is majority progressive. They better tap into that before they give up on the party entirely.
     
    #14 JayGoogle, Jul 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2018
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  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    Honestly, and I hate to say this, but I think a lot of Fox Viewers see melanin and a non-Anglo-looking last name (with a hyphen even!) and are automatically geared to see "far left," before actually paying attention to the content. (e.g. a living wage, a life of dignity -- ohmegerd!)
     
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  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Yeah I'm sure that's what it is, it has nothing to do with her being an admitted socialist who wishes to see the end of capitalism....you know, just completely normal, moderate views.
     
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  17. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    No doubt about that. Ocasio is never going to win those people over. It does seem like she gets painted as some radical Castro (I've even seen a political commentator say "She'd fit in right next to Castro...") when Bernie sometimes doesn't. But I hope the DNC doesn't listen to these calls to ignore her. She and Bernie does have ideas that the majority of the country wants. She's never going to convince Fox News viewers, at least she knows that.

    I mean this is what Fox News put up as her platform...they see this as BAD and CRAZY.

    [​IMG]

    I honestly think that most Democrats in America look at this and go "Well maybe one or two of those things I dislike but everything else? Yep."

    I think independents can look at that and accept most of that. I see 3 things on there that I would question,

    • Gun Control - I think liberals should give up this fight, it hurts, I know...but people are never going to do that in this country. Even though personally I think we could do without guns as a society.
    • Abolish ice - Same, what does she feel about that, and why.
    • Mobilizing against Climate Change - What does she mean by that, what kind of regulation is she asking for here.

    Other than that, 2 Thumbs up for everything else.
     
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  18. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Bernie often doesn't because he's not really a socialist despite him foolishly claiming to be. Bernie is a capitalist, and that's why he wouldn't fit in very well next to Castro.......your girl Ocasio-Cortez on the other hand, she's actually a socialist, so she'd have 100% been on board with Castro if she had been around back during the revolution. She'd have been on board with her fellow Democratic Socialist Hugo Chavez too. You keep trying to make it seem like she's not a radical, but she really, really is.....even in the current state of the left which has shifted so far to the left already she's still an outlier.


    What is "bad" and "crazy" is how she intends on attempting to accomplish those things and the reason she's wanting to do so. She wishes to end capitalism and switch to a socialist system, that's her main goal, everything else is just a means to that end. Someone could run on ending all violence and crime......but when they are a Nazi and their idea of how to accomplish that goal is by murdering millions, that's "bad" and "crazy". Your stated goals might all be admirable, but if the way you intend to attempt to accomplish those goals is awful, you are awful.

    In the list above, you have a dog whistle for open borders, a federal jobs guarantee which would require the size of the government to massively increase, medicare for all which would require the size of the government to massively increase, housing as a human right which would require the government to massively increase......I mean, just to pay for all of this BS taxes would have to more than double on everyone....and the goal of it was always to eventually put an end to the capitalist system entirely, and this is the stuff you don't think is extreme.

    I'm thinking the problem here is that some of you guys don't seem to understand that you are radicals. You are way out on the fringes of the left....but you view yourselves as moderates, so you view far left policy as moderate when it isn't.
     
  19. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yeah, I don't expect you to understand.

    After all, you think Obama is far-left, so I know your political spectrum is completely out of whack here.
     
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  20. DreamShook

    DreamShook Member

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    I wish AOC would just stop using the word "Democratic Socialist" it triggers so many people unnecessarily. Americans don't seem to realize the US is a mixed economic systems with elements of both capitalism and socialism.. Do they not know why we pay taxes? Conservatives go straight for the, "Well, how are we going to pay for all that stuff". When they just passed a tax cut for the rich that is going to add a Quad-Drillion dollars to the deficit.
     
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