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[ESPN] What's next for the NBA's greatest innovator [Harden]

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by thephatp, Oct 3, 2019.

  1. thephatp

    thephatp Contributing Member

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    https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27751456/next-nba-greatest-innovator

    I found this to be a really great read. The key here to me isn't the callout about the one-legged 3 pointer. I have no idea how effective that'll actually be or how much it'll be used. I'm not interested in discussing that (been discussed in other threads already).

    What I took from this article is this:
    • His efficiency in ISO was crazy; and in 3-ball ISO, beyond crazy.
    • That has gone up in the playoffs, while efficiency has dipped in the playoffs, though still better than the average half-court set. People seem to think he fell off in the playoffs, but that's just not true.
    • It's true that coaches have learned to make it more difficult in the playoffs, and there's several reasons we could express here (saving that for later).
    • It was a very good callout to talk about his dribbles has not just getting from point A to point B, but to meticulously break down his defender to get passed them.
    Previously, I was not in favor of the trade. I like Chris Paul and everything he brings. I was worried about Westbrook's efficiency. And several other things.

    However, here's were I'm starting to get really intrigued and excited about this season:
    • First, Harden doesn't have to shoulder the entire load of creating shots. Westbrook is legitimate there.
    • Second, Harden doesn't have to beat his man as often. In the moments/games in which he's not able to break a defender down enough to beat them consistently (think, Kawhi), he can now focus on getting the defender leaning away from Westbrook, and dish off to Westbrook with the space created. Then, if Westbrook doesn't have a clear path, he'll undoubtedly draw defenders, leaving space for shooters; or for Harden to move to another space.
    • Third, having someone else does take some of the physical load off during the regular season.
    • Finally, having Westbrook in the playoffs with similar style (and hopefully increasing efficiency), saves Harden even more energy at the time in which it matters.
    Maybe this is pie in the sky thinking; maybe Westbrook will continue to be a shell of himself in terms of efficiency; maybe they won't get along as well as we hope; maybe Westbrook can't handle deferring more to Harden. Who knows. But this article gave me a little more insight into how this could all play out in the end this season. Count me in!
     
    #1 thephatp, Oct 3, 2019
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  2. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Graph of James Harden's efficiency/volume is wildly impressive. But I hate that Goldsberry had to use the term *heroball* because that is really a pejorative when the usage here is efficient and a net positive to success. Kirk does a disservice to his fine article.





     
    #2 Deuce, Oct 3, 2019
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  3. smoothie_king

    smoothie_king Member

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    Cutting his hair would be an act of God! Harden that is.
     
    #3 smoothie_king, Oct 3, 2019
  4. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    It's so nice to have Kirk Goldsberry's graphs in my life again
     
    #4 meh, Oct 3, 2019
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  5. Vivi

    Vivi Member

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    At this point there was only one aspect i didn't like about Chris, and it was his age, constant injuries...all that made him look like he was never at his best or close to that out there last season (watching him not being able to get past guys like Bogut and Favors was kinda sad)...basically the fact that we couldn't really count on him to help Harden carry the load anymore, Westbrook at least will help with that.
     
    #5 Vivi, Oct 3, 2019
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  6. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    I'm going to call it early: Harden is going to shock the f*ck out of the NBA with his off ball efficiency.
     
    #6 Mathloom, Oct 3, 2019
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  7. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Contributing Member

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    The fallacy the NBA public seems to peddle is that Chris Paul at age 34 can still provide elite defense. Sure, anybody with incredible court vision and intelligence can get into the passing lanes from time to time. But when it's mano a mano, and the other guy is trying to take him off the dribble...or even when he's trying to take his man off the dribble, lateral quickness matters. Last year it was clear that CP3 had lost it. Maybe this year with an all Impossible burger carnivore diet compared to his vegan lifestyle last year, he could regain a little bit of the lost explosiveness. But those things generally don't recover much once you hit that age.
     
    #7 Spacemoth, Oct 3, 2019
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  8. mike2k132

    mike2k132 Member

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    I think everyone in houston should of already known this. I mean I always have to remind people that a harden iso gets u some of the highest PPP in the nba.

    N it's still weird I have to tell tickets fans that the rockets gonna keep shooting 3s. Doeant matter if the miss a bunch...the percentage is just in thier favor by doing it. I've actually grown to love the chucking n want Westbrook to let them fly too. I rather his 3s then the crazy 2s he shot
     
    #8 mike2k132, Oct 3, 2019
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  9. Roc Paint

    Roc Paint Contributing Member

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    I don’t like skittles or graphs
     
    #9 Roc Paint, Oct 3, 2019
  10. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Goldsberry may have wrote the memo but not fully grasping it, Harden has gone beyond Hero ball. Hero Ball connotes negative inefficient basketball.

    Harden, and Harden alone, plays Superhero Ball. Superhero Ball is innovative Wilt level basketball.

    Harden's efficiency plus production is preternatural.
     
    #10 D-rock, Oct 3, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2019
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  11. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    Eric Gordon is leading the league in catch-n-shoot because teams are so scared of that step-back. Keep it up Rockets!
     
    #11 don grahamleone, Oct 4, 2019
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  12. LorneMalvo

    LorneMalvo Member

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    Absolute horseshoe. A lot of metrics bear him out as EASILY their second best defender last season behind Tuck.

    No one just isolates like Harden and Paul was fine as an isolation defender anyway.

    He was an ELITE PNR defender by PPP and has been for like 7 straight seasons now.

    A massive part of the Rockets doing so ridiculously well on both ends for like 50 straight games was him, Capela, House and Tucker playing really well in those drop coverages.


    And ACTUALLY this **** post got me to remember how he locked Mitchell and Ingles down in the first round. You know, those same guys who tore Westbrook a new one in the 2018 first round.


    Chris Paul is as good as any guard on defense in a traditional pick and roll scheme(no switching). Quick enough to get around and under screens to recover, and strong enough to fight through them. THEN comes the intelligent help defense/communication and strong rebounding.

    The Rockets panicked and blew it and traded a high-substance player for a loser stat padding guard(WHO is DECLINING rapidly). Don’t be delusional.
     
    #12 LorneMalvo, Oct 4, 2019
  13. smp

    smp Member

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    DanTony and Harden will make Westbrook into a more efficient player. I am 100 percent sure his game will improve in that area- probably even a substantial improvement.

    I don’t know how much harden can improve. I don’t think he’s ever going to turn into a closer when the game is on the line in a high pressure playoff setting. So I’ve grown to accept how great he is and just understand that’s his only real weakness.

    The great thing is that Westbrook has that “give me the last shot” mentality. He is going to be huge for us. I can’t freaking wait for the season to start!!!!
     
    #13 smp, Oct 4, 2019
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  14. banzai

    banzai Contributing Member

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    We have any stats from okc with Harden playing off ball off the bench?
     
    #14 banzai, Oct 4, 2019
  15. banzai

    banzai Contributing Member

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    #15 banzai, Oct 4, 2019
  16. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    i love cp3 and this is a great comment but i remember jeff teague and faster guys leaving cp3 in the dust in 2018 already...he was too slow for them far too often for my liking
     
    #16 hakeem94, Oct 4, 2019
  17. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    75 wins season here we come!
     
    #17 hakeem94, Oct 4, 2019
  18. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    Great point, CP3 is an aging Veteran that should come off the bench and provide stability. James never saw him as his equal due to inability to get around people or consistently deliver...
     
    #18 BackNthDay, Oct 4, 2019
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