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Derrick Rose played the best against the best Defenses last season

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by ommy48, Jul 26, 2011.

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  1. ommy48

    ommy48 Member

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    Who Ruled the Top Defenses in 2011?

    Posted by Neil Paine on July 25, 2011

    Which players excel against the best defenses, and which ones get their numbers by feasting on the weakest Ds?

    To answer those questions, here's the latest installment of a series I started in 2009 and continued in 2010... The concept is simple: I rate each team defensively using the BBR Rankings formula (including regular-season and playoff games), then track how well each player performed offensively against opponents of varying defensive quality.


    Here were the final defensive rankings for 2011:

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=9816
     
    #1 ommy48, Jul 26, 2011
  2. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    Yeah. Now give him a decent team.
    Why the hell is Keith Bogans his 2?
     
    #2 RedRedemption, Jul 26, 2011
  3. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Yeah until the playoffs started.
     
    #3 Shaud, Jul 26, 2011
  4. ommy48

    ommy48 Member

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    Yeah, that was a travesty of epic proportions to be sure. What is amazing that even with Rose running out of gas in the ECF, he still came out on top statistically over the course of the entire season and playoffs combined which tells you just how great he was until that point. Unless someone watched every one of his games from the start of the season (as I was lucky enough to do) you had no clue how big of a load he shouldered offensively night in and night out. He led his team back nearly 20 times in the regular season from a second half deficit in the 4th quarter with clutch play after clutch play, even with the entire defense of the opposing team shadowing his every move.

    This post from a Bulls insider on another forum tells you just how hard he took the loss last season, which if true tells me that this guy has the drive to be great and will be considerably better next year as well:


    Some things from my pal:

    - [Rose's] depression was real. Apparently Lebron had been turning the trash talk up, saying 'Rose is too small for me,' etc. Rose apparently let that get to him some, as he kind of dislikes LBJ but tolerates him since they appear at so many things together. Post ECF, the stay-at-home-ness got to the point where Rose was getting greasy home-cooked stuff snuck over to him...and I guess the D-Rose personal chef was actually getting really pissed about it.

    - Rose in regular contact with MJ, who during the depression actually texted him "Man Up" or something to that effect. Get it together, etc.

    - As soon as Rose emerged from this, he began pestering management for a two guard. BJ Armstrong asked management if the Jason Richardson rumors were real, to which he got no response. At that point BJ put it more aggressively to management - "we need to meet about this" (paraphrased). At that point, Bulls front office people actually went to Derrick's house. No details about this part, but from what I understand the meeting went so well that Derrick has been left very much content / set at ease. No idea what that means but I guess he approves of the things they have in play right now.

    - Friction has started up a bit with regards to # of people on team flights. Derrick brought tons of people to MIA/CHI games, and it got JR a little riled up. They met about it and tempers cooled.

    - Goes without saying, but D-Rose wants that max deal offered to him, and doesn't want one iota of lowballing. This should be a no-brainer, but obviously these are the Bulls so you tend to wonder. Derrick has been helping family members out financially and therefore some degree of paranoia has risen up regarding the future $$.

    All my quotes are meant as paraphrases. This is delivered to me second hand so at least just take this as an explanation of some possibilities of what's out there. As with anything else, ever.. this is filtered - but it's what I've been hearing.
     
    #4 ommy48, Jul 26, 2011
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  5. ommy48

    ommy48 Member

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    uhh not really since the data includes:

    I rate each team defensively using the BBR Rankings formula (including regular-season and playoff games), then track how well each player performed offensively against opponents of varying defensive quality.
     
    #5 ommy48, Jul 26, 2011
  6. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    I don't care what the stats say. Rose was pretty bad in the playoffs.
     
    #6 Shaud, Jul 26, 2011
  7. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Rose had the best defense in the entire league.
     
    #7 Mr. Clutch, Jul 26, 2011
  8. Obito

    Obito Contributing Member

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    He was pretty bad in the Miami series. Like anybody else who's forced to carry their team. Especially against three legitimate scorers, who can get their own shots as opposed to one.
     
    #8 Obito, Jul 26, 2011
  9. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    So. How effective was that defense on Wade and James?
    That team was destined to lose if Rose didn't carry then game after game.
    Guess what happened? Rose couldn't carry them.

    They almost lost to the Pacers because Derrick Rose (the Bulls only option) had a horrible shooting series. Only from the sheer willpower that Rose brought in the closing minutes of each 4th quarter stopped the Bulls from getting upset by the Pacers.

    Honestly, Luol Deng was expected to step up. But he faltered each and every time.
     
    #9 RedRedemption, Jul 26, 2011
  10. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    The Bulls won until their defense stopped working.
     
    #10 Mr. Clutch, Jul 26, 2011
  11. VBG

    VBG Member

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    Deng actually played decently.

    The MVP of the league cannot shoot under 40% in the playoffs. That's just not going to help your team.

    The Bulls defense was pretty good too. They completely shut down Dwayne Wade who murdered the Celtics and Mavs.

    Rose was just completely shut down. Rose also doesn't impact the game defensively as much as LBJ/Wade.


    I think if we draft the last 20 MVPs - Derrick Rose is the last pick
     
    #11 VBG, Jul 26, 2011
  12. mvpcrossxover

    mvpcrossxover Member

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    will drose be the next great player surrounded by horrible teammates?
    i thought the boozer sign was bad. should've went with a younger PF
     
    #12 mvpcrossxover, Jul 26, 2011
  13. VBG

    VBG Member

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    His teammates > Lebron's (Cavs), Kobe's (Lakers between Shaq and Pau), T-Mac's (Orlando, early Houston), KG (Minny)
     
    #13 VBG, Jul 26, 2011
  14. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Contributing Member

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    Rose had the best defensive AND rebounding team, the 2 main ingredients to winning.

    And he completely bombed in the playoffs. That was one of the ugliest showcases of an MVP winner in the playoffs I have ever witnessed.

    He was bad in epic proportions vs the Heat. But he was also below average vs a sub-500 team in Indiana, and an above average team in the Hawks.
     
    #14 t_mac1, Jul 26, 2011
  15. AggieRocketsFan

    AggieRocketsFan Member

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    So Kevin Martin is better against good defensive teams?
     
    #15 AggieRocketsFan, Jul 26, 2011
  16. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    This may be true but Dwight Howard (the real MVP) made his team into the one of the best defenses last season.

    Playing against the best defense < making your team into the best defense

    As for him carrying such a heavy load, stars have always carried heavy loads on teams. Tmac for example always carried crap teams into the playoffs, there was only 1 time I remember him being able to play with a healthy Yao Ming. In comparison to the cast that Tmac, LBJ, Gasol and KG carried into the playoffs during the early parts of their careers Rose's cast is pretty good, Joakim Noah, Boozer and Luol Deng are all decent players. So its not like Rose was doing something special, he was just hyped up so badly. Compared to other MVPs like Kobe, LBJ, Duncan, KG and Shaq, I'm pretty sure D. Rose is pretty much the bottom of the barrel.
     
    #16 roslolian, Jul 26, 2011
  17. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    Rose was their only option because Rose couldn't shoot the ball. Boozer and Deng are slashers/post scorers, they need room to operate. Since Rose doesn't have a working shot, the opponent can just zone and crowd the paint. How can Boozer and Deng do their own thing if their MVP couldn't provide spacing and stays in the paint along with them?

    The reason the Bulls' offense sucked was because of Rose.
     
    #17 roslolian, Jul 26, 2011
  18. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

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    I know you gave an explanation. Just that sentence by itself is odd
     
    #18 Shroopy2, Jul 27, 2011
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