Dangerous People Are Teaching Your Kids

If you were presented with ideas counter to your feelings on capitalism being designed to be those things you stated would you reconsider your thoughts?

 

I find this to be much more common with my conservative peers. They are unable to digest anything that doesn't emanate from the Fox "News" echo chamber and without exception, reply to any facts with a series of whataboutisms.

 

I've listened to Peterson a lot and I don't really like this video. He hits on major, major ideas but these ideas needs lectures to break down the very deep and nuanced topics he is talking about instead of what are effectively sound bites. He does much better in discussions with other professors and in his university lectures. The only problem with listening to those is you have to be a person willing to listen to people talk for an hour in a university type setting.



No one will spend 10 minutes watching this but it breaks down the lack of intellectual diversity (and why it is extremely important even if you disagree with the opposing view) on college campuses by Jonathan Haidt (he is a liberal). Also, fwiw Jordan Peterson is a liberal (and very data driven) even though the right has gravitated towards him.

 

I think I understand his disdain for prioritizing diversity/inclusion over merit and competence.

To push back, however, having a diverse workplace seems like a social good to me. For example, if a man only professionally works with other men, that will seemingly make it more likely that he will see women as intrinsically inferior at his particular job. It creates a feedback loop that further stratifies the workplace based on gender. This is not only suboptimal, it is also a bad moral outcome insofar as it deters people from pursuing their interests which would make them most happy.

So, I think diversity is a good goal to have, even while one can debate the right way to achieve it. I prefer a bottom-up approach, but some combination may be the best path.

 

This is more a function of tribalism in human nature. We try look for information and ideas that help "our side" win whether it's for a point of view that represents how we view the world or if it's to support ideas that the group you identify with holds. Further, people have a tendency to latch on to an idea rather than trying to destroy or disprove an idea to see if it holds true and how it holds up to criticism. Additionally, we get into other issues when we deal with criticism since some people take criticism of ideas as more than criticism of an idea but criticism of themselves as a person to a degree.

Either way check out that video I posted above if you have time and tell me what you think.

 

Whataboutism would be a delightful change of pace compared to what I have to deal with.

Getting cut out of social circles, having my job threatened, etc.

It's pretty ridiculous.

To be fair, when I was in the deep south I ran into far more hardline conservatives (not intolerant per se, but definitely closed-minded), but now that I'm in DC I am drowning in extremely intolerant liberals.

 

I agree with the premise of the thread title. My wife is a teacher and I've been to some of their happy hours.

OUT OF CONTROL.

 

Good job linking racial diversity and non-discrimination to communism, never seen that before.

 

Diversity is hiring a black guy, inclusion is answering his emails when he asks for training or new accounts after five years.

 

In my experience, it is the conservatives who willfully cut themselves out of social circles where liberals gather.

I work in one of the more liberal environments that exists and I've never even heard a conservative here CLAIM that their job was threatened because of their political views. I have heard of plant workers being drummed out of a job if they don't toe the GOP line, several times.

Yes, your claims do appear to be pretty ridiculous.

Perhaps they're intolerant of opinions that aren't based in fact. We should all be intolerant of those.

 

Just a wild thought-

Public school teachers & professors will continue to move to the left of the spectrum when you have one party in particular defunding their schools, bashing them & making them villains for political interests, taking away benefits (hello TRA & Gregg Abbott), and putting more risk on the job profile in school violence & responsibility to also be armed security guards.

This is what some would refer to as Self Fulfilling Prophecy. Yes... public school teachers & professors will obviously become liberal if you force them to become so out of self interest. Why would any public school teacher not be a liberal Democrat?

Maybe Republican voters, instead of losing their sh$% over internet conspiracy theories, need to advocate for their Republican voted representatives to become engaged in policy that works with Public school and college interests to educate at the highest level. Maybe then their political views filtering down wouldn't be such a needless issue.

But we all know that's just not the case. Lets just call it like it is please. The Republican party & the Tea Party libertarians that run it's agenda & Religious nut cases from the Mike Pence wing are doing everything they can to promote privatizing of our children's education. These Right Wing Think Tank pieces are nothing more than political propaganda to privatize education. As I mentioned earlier, this so-called "professor" is currently raising money to start his own online Right Wing University. Talk about self-interest.

These guys shouldn't get credit just for using big words & talking in complete sentences. This is an agenda think piece at best. At worst, damaging propaganda.

 

That's completely different than what I'm talking about. Being forcibly removed from a social circle is my experience. Far more sinister.

These are anecdotes, so it can't get beyond my personal experience. However, the prevailing narrative is that liberals are far less tolerant of independent thought. My lived experience supports this (this thread is a perfectly fine example). YMMV, but the national attitude and understanding about liberals and conservatives re: tolerance certainly doesn't do much to dissuade me from feeling this way.

That's a pretty crappy and vague counterargument. Care to elaborate?

No, they're simply intolerant, petulant, and immature. Truly underdeveloped, emotionally stunted people. Pains me to say it, because I hope the best for these folks, but they're severely lacking in their ability to disagree with people peacefully and challenge their own assumptions. These characteristics aren't wholesale owned by liberals, but it does seem to tie back to some common personality traits (neuroticism, empathy, low conscientiousness, etc) that skew high on the liberal side.

 

If anyone wants a better understanding of Peterson’s point of view then watch that lecture or even just the first 30 minutes.

OP should watch that lecture too.

 

The Austin liberal is the same way. Extremely open minded and tolerant as long as you agree with all of their ideological tenets. If you start to question their ideology then you’re a racist, a Trump supporter, sexist or something along those lines. Things have become very black and white for the self proclaimed “liberals” and nuanced discussions are extremely difficult to have since defense of ideology has greater importance rather than pursuit of some type of truth. I live in Austin and they are the loudest ones in the proverbial room here, so it’s probably why I rail on “liberals” the most. Also, it’s probably because they are supposed to be the ones who are more open to new experience and not as confined to structure as conservatives are.

 

It's "unholy" and nonsensical rhetorical because the rest of the world simply does not care about "diversity", "equity", and "inclusion". Case in point: no one -- not even @JuanValdez -- can make a case for immigrating to Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, India, or China. Yet, this is where many immigrants to the US are coming from.

To answer your question: "inclusion" is when women get what they want; "diversity" is non-white people (preferably Asians).

Case in point: the sexist air-conditioning.

 

This guy seems like a winger dressed up in a shiny veneer of intellectualism. Don't be bamboozled. He's no William F Buckley.

The Guardian had an interesting article about him:

How dangerous is Jordan B Peterson, the rightwing professor who 'hit a hornets' nest'?

From the article:

This article is from February 2018.

 

You should listen to his lectures (like the one I posted above) rather than listen to other people talking about him. He isn’t a right winger and you are being lazy if you want to classify him as such. You are exemplifying the problem I mentioned earlier as well.

 

It's quite true. White men created it and now they're complaining about it. How do you think Africans became black and Italians became white? When white men used their power to disenfranchise and subjugate people based on a racial construct they created it was all good, now that the construct is tilting away from their favor all of a sudden it's a big problem. It's similar to how all of a sudden as America becomes less white that diversity is a problem.

It's not odd at all. Not even a little bit. In fact it is as predatory and exploitative as humans are capable of and that's why it creates a type of social darwinism.

He said the poor have basic needs met and they don't. Not even by a long shot. Saying that the mentally ill homeless person digging through trash cans in 95 degree Houston heat has it better than the poor in the history of mankind is incredibly tone deaf and aloof. The richest country in the history of the world probably shouldn't have that problem but it does because that's capitalism, a great many people must be poor for a very few to be wealthy. This is a similar argument to how black people should be thankful they were brought to the United States as slaves because look how good they have it compared to the average African.

Your argument seems to be that capitalism is predatory and exploitative but that the pennies on the dollar that someone in south east Asia is paid by a billion dollar American company is the best model in the history of our species. Incredibly tone deaf dude. Incredibly.

I don't find it all nihilist. Finding problems in western civilization doesn't mean I reject it.

The "equality" of opportunity is so unequal as to be completely meaningless. Nobody is looking for equality of outcome, we're interested in an actual equality of opportunity. That someone in the fifth ward can have the same quality of instruction, education, and health as someone in katy. An equality of opportunity where a child can succeed and fail not because of the circumstance in which he was born and the neighborhood he lives in but because of the quality of his character and his work ethic.

You presented a video full of boogeymen and slogans. If you want to present me data saying there is a dangerous level of neo-marxists in colleges that are going to infiltrate the power structures of western civilization and destabilize our way of life then go ahead. I'll be glad to respond to that.

Unlike your speaker, I understand college is a place where young people experiment in thought and go to extremes. Then they grow up. Ironically, the guy who starts threads like these about the dangers of college never went to college.

I don't think it's a bad thing, I think it's a fake thing. A dumb, meaningless slogan. I am very concerned about the quality of education in college but not because there's some liberal fringe that is destroying critical thought but rather because colleges have become paper mills where cheating is rampant and kids aren't ready to learn once they get there.

 

I'm not anti-capitalist as much as I believe it requires a socialist component to be as successful as possible. I think the US needs to trend in a further socialist direction to solve the economic problems that are important to me. I'm glad to listen to people's thoughts.

 

Black people only get jobs through affirmative action and steal jobs from white people. Diversity and Inclusion are EVIL!

Give me a break.

Minorities who gain power don't do it through charity, they do it through effing hard work to overcome bias. Work twice as hard to get it - earned.