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Dangerous People Are Teaching Your Kids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by RocketsLegend, Jun 12, 2018 at 11:17 PM.

  1. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

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  2. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Another thing that is dangerous is people that think they know it all. Regardless if they have much formal education. That is a general statement (not referring to the OP)

    I don’t know much about Jordan Peterson. I have listened to a few podcasts with him. Nothing specifically stood out. I will watch the video though, which by the title seems to demonize education.

    @RocketsLegend i am curious what is your thoughts on climate change regarding human impact?
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Yes, liberalism is dangerous to racist parents
     
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  4. Spooner

    Spooner Member

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    I actually like Jordan Peterson. I've been listening to him off and on. I think he gets a bad rap as he is lumped in unfairly with people like Yiannopulous due to his sociopolitical leanings. As far as I know he has never used his platform for hate speech and his ideas deserve to be heard. I respect that he has the gumption to speak out about things without fear of being crucified for his own feelings and opinions. I honestly wish more people on the left would open up to people like this without being so dismissive. Do I agree with everything he says? No. However that doesn't mean he shouldn't have a platform. His arguments are well constructed and I agree with a decent amount of what he says at times. I am definitely a left leaning individual and I happen to work at NYU. I can see the merit in what he says based on the interactions I have on a daily basis. Its almost as if people are too afraid to have a differing opinion for fear of being viewed as some kind of monster and that in itself is very frustrating to me. Feeding off of what a poster said above, I think it is dangerous for a group of people to explicitly think they have all the answers and that everyone else is wrong and that goes for both parties. In my opinion there is a hell of a lot wrong with the right wing at this juncture, but Jordan Peterson isn't one of them.
     
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  5. CometsWin

    CometsWin Listening to Tupac Westsiiiiide
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    The video is just a hodgepodge of conservative slogans and boogeyman. It's intellectually dishonest at best, outright stupid at worst.
     
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  6. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    He names diversity, equity, and inclusion as the “unholy trinity” of the radical left.

    What is the distinction between diversity and inclusion? They just seem like different words for the same thing.
     
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  7. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member
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    It’s hilarious to think of this portion of the country who voted for Donald Trump, and don’t believe in science, say that “all truth is subjective” when referring to public school teachers.

    My wife is a teacher ... so... fu$k you I guess. It’s pointless to try and prove otherwise when you’re trying to make an argument with someone who doesn’t believe in the most basic science.
     
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  8. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    I don’t think the video in the OP is arguing for an anti-science position. It’s more about how the humanities are taught, rather than science.
     
  9. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room, bucko
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    Diversity is the aim (gender/race/orientation), inclusion is the means (quotas and mandates). Closely related, but different.
     
  10. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room, bucko
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    I've been following Jordan Peterson's work for 2-3 years now. I found out about him randomly via Youtube's algorithm for video suggestions. I watched hundreds of hours of his lectures and found them incredibly helpful and informative (they had nothing to do with politics), then Bill C16 happened (compelled speech re: gender pronouns) and all hell broke loose. I attended a lecture of his in DC this past week. Got to meet him. Incredibly impressive and unbelievably kind person. I'm decidedly left leaning, and while the audience was mostly moderate conservatives (there were a total of 2 MAGA chuds in the whole theater), I had lots of friendly and respectful dialogue with them all about a range of political and social topics. Compare that to my mostly liberal friends and colleagues, whom I basically have to walk on eggshells around politically since they cannot digest new ideas or tolerate disagreement. Right now Peterson is a stabilizing force for the right and a corrective force for the left, and if history holds true, in 10-15 years he will be the exact opposite, despised by the right and embraced by the left. As a pragmatic agnostic in the vein of Sam Harris, I don't agree with everything he says (I have particular problem with how he tends to read too deeply into religious meaning and subtext, which gives cover to some fairly bad ideas), but the man's fundamental guiding principles are an undeniable force for good that we should all pay attention to. It pains me to watch the left continually self-immolate in its attempts to smear him.
     
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  11. R0ckets03

    R0ckets03 Contributing Member

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    Is that why your parents left you an unedumacated buffoon?
     
  12. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room, bucko
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    What, exactly, do you disagree with?

    The basic premise is that the humanities are functioning as far-left ideology factories, and that we should abandon them lest they return to focusing on how-to-think instead of what-to-think.

    As a former liberal arts major, I don't have a lot of objections to that statement, or that suggestion.
     
  13. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member
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    Forgive me but don’t “truths” go hand in hand with universally agreed upon things like science? Does telling falsehoods on a daily basis about big and small things jive with “truths”?

    Just saying on the subject of truths in general, there’s a credibility issue here that needs to be addressed before allowing them to condemn those in society who up until this year in history (except in dictatorships that burn books and in sci fi movies) with credibilty and respect.

    I mean this sh$& is straight out of 1984. Maybe more subtle with cute vignettes & talk of “humanities” but the thought generation it is trying to achieve in the end is no different. Don’t trust your teachers. It’s not that complicated of a message and should frighten everyone but no... people want to split hairs and argue the nuance I guess.

    They give enough vague language here for folks on the right to say “no I BELIEVE they are just talking about X or Y”.... when in reality let’s cut the crap... they are telling you that public education is bad. Pull your kids out of school and put them in private school.
     
    #13 dobro1229, Jun 13, 2018 at 9:09 AM
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 9:18 AM
  14. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    That’s not what they are saying or what the video is saying. Jordan Peterson is a professor at a public university. Why would he say all teachers are to be distrusted, when he is one?

    He is talking about a particular “ideology” which he thinks is prevalent on university campuses, and encouraged by both school administration and faculty personnel. It is not a general anti-education or anti-science message, as you are portraying it.
     
  15. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member
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    That’s just simply not true though (being anti public education) Since January I believe, Peterson has been accepting donations to start his own online university.

    His own college he belonged to in Toronto has had to issues warnings of harassment for coming after his own colleagues he’s going after.

    The guy is someone who in pretty much any conversation on his YouTube channel will ultimately link anything liberal to a “neo-Marxist” movement that is a threat to society.

    Just because this guy has a degree and can speak in complete sentences doesn’t mean he’s not selling crack rock propaganda. Him and guys like Ben Shapiro seem like credible guys from the other side just because they can speak in clear sentences but in the end they are just another right wing nutcase with an agenda.
     
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room, bucko
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    eh, what? he never attacked his colleagues. never attacked anyone, really. U of T sent him empty threat letters basically telling him to stop being... controversial (I suppose refusing to accept C16 as valid is controversial).

    it's a legit criticism that "anything I don't like is marxist" but when you're surrounded by college liberals trying to get you fired for not agreeing with them, I can't say I blame his hyper defensiveness.

    In the end, they are rational humans who aren't possessed by any particular ideology, and while some of them lean conservative (Shapiro is a great example), some of them lean heavily liberal (the Weinstein brothers) and yet are only welcome in conservatives circles because the left has cast them out for not buying leftist orthodoxy wholesale.

    It makes me sick to my stomach watching the left cede acres and acres of ground in the realm of intellectual honesty and curiosity to the right wing.
     
    #16 DonnyMost, Jun 13, 2018 at 12:32 PM
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 12:43 PM
  17. CometsWin

    CometsWin Listening to Tupac Westsiiiiide
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    All of it. I'm a progressive, not a nihilist. White men created identity politics in this country. Capitalism is the greatest economic engine in the world because it is predatory and exploitative, by design. The poor in the US do not have basic needs met. Undermining western civilization is not my life's mission and anyone with any integrity certainly finds it quite corrupt, oppressive, and patriarchal. I don't believe western imperialism is the source of all third world problems. There's no equality of opportunity in this country, by design. I won't continue because I can't fathom why you would promote a video filled with slogans and nonsense. Venezuela, Karl Marx, the Commies, derp.

    As white men lose prestige and power in western society we will see more of this willfully ignorant, fake intellectualism.

    I find it much more dangerous that children all over the country receive a sub-standard education that your buddy here would call "equality of opportunity" when it's anything but.
     
    #17 CometsWin, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:46 PM
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2018 at 10:55 PM
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  18. CCorn

    CCorn Contribiting Member
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    It’s dangerous that the secretary of education knows nothing about public education.
     
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  19. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost clean your room, bucko
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    Even if this were true (it's not), what does it have to do with the point? IDPOL = bad. The fact that white identity politics happened before this intersectionality crap does not absolve it of how terrible or prevalent it is.

    That's an odd thing to say. Capitalism is only as predatory and exploitative as humans are. It's why we have limits to it and a governing structure. Otherwise we're living in a mad max hellscape. Conservatives understand this as well. Most are not ANCAPS.

    As for the poor, the poor in the US have it better than any group of "poor" in the history of mankind. This raised standard of living is because of capitalism and the free market. There will always be people at the bottom of any hierarchy, and we need to be vigilant to make sure that our society doesn't become unstable due to wealth inequality (which is a natural consequence of capitalism). But to place this suffering and winners/losers dichotomy at the feet of capitalism itself is ignorant of history. Oppressors and oppressed existed long before capitalism, and the truth is that capitalism has liberated more people from oppression than any system in the history of our species.

    That's a pretty nihilistic thing to say but OK :)

    Please elaborate. That is an enormous claim you just made, and it requires justification.

    I'm promoting it because I've spent years following the thread. I've read the literature. I've done my research. I've inoculated myself against the knee-jerk reaction of being a liberal and having my presuppositions attacked. It took me a while to digest these ideas, and it didn't happen easily. Perhaps you should take a moment and consider the fact that an avowed liberal with 10+ years of posting here is saying these things instead of just dismissing it outright because it runs counter to a narrative you subscribe to.

    That doesn't really make sense or follow any kind of reasoning pattern. Again, you've not really presented any kind of counter arguments. Ironically you're mostly speaking in platitudes, slogans, and generalities without any kind of support. You can say Dr. Peterson is doing the same thing, but his unsupported claim is almost universally accepted as true (the humanities being unproductive far-left ideologue factories).

    I love how you say "equality of opportunity" like it's a bad thing. Lulz. If you are indeed concerned about shitty education, you should be very concerned about the amount of time and resources that large swaths of higher education are sucking up without producing anything of value (or worse yet, producing a net negative by cranking out little ideologically possessed liberal arts zombies).
     
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  20. robbie380

    robbie380 Contributing Member

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    It isn't liberalism he is talking about.
     
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