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CP3 and James are the most talented backcourt in history.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by BaselineFade, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    I was discussing the history of the nba with my teenage son earlier. He was a little upset that all of his friends and teammates believed that Steph and Klay are far superior to CP and the Beard. I know that the media echoes that same sentiment.

    First off I go back to last season and as recently as the WCF last year. Steph and Klay are all time great shooters. Klay is a good to great defender. Steph is a decent play maker, but I believe that the Rockets exposed them both in the WCF. When you close out aggressively and specifically sit on their right hands, they can be held in check. I believe we proved that during the series. Jeff B’s switching defense, crowding them at the 3 point line and forcing them left makes them both look human. Just take away their space and force them to drive left and live with consequences.

    You have no such luxury with CP and James. You cannot simply crowd them or pick a side. If you crowd them or pick a side you are cooked. If you play off of them you are cooked. If you send help they not only have the ability to make the right pass, but they both do it an all time elite level as a duo. CP is elite from the midrange as well and James still could be if looked for that mid-range step back that he used to shoot. Though I have noticed that he has gone to it a bit more early in this season. James also gets to the rim at will, and draws more fouls than anyone I have ever seen.

    When you combine shooting, scoring and playmaking I believe this backcourt is not only better than Steph and Klay, but is the best of all time.

    Defensively Klay can be a beast. He competes, moves his feet and has length. He can guard 1-3 and even some 4’s as he has shown vs Kevin Love.Steph is a baby defensively. He can be abused from the perimeter as well as the post. Our guards unmercifully abused him during the WCF.

    CP is an all time great defender. He has the 7 first team all defense nods to prove it. He is pesky, a thief, physical, nasty, dirty ect and it all works for him. He even does a good job in the post using his physicality and quick hands to frustrate much larger opponents in the post. He is savvy enough to know when to pull the chair. He gets more clean strips and steals than any pg that I can remember since Gary Payton. Even at his age he still leads the league in steals and he earns every one of them.

    James has been the topic of ridicule regarding his defense since his arrival in Houston. Most of it he deserved. He used to awful on that end of the floor and I can’t sugarcoat that. Over the last year or so I have noticed a significant uptick in his effort on the perimeter. He seems to be more engaged. I didn’t look up any stats but it looks like he is getting a nice amount of steals. His defense in the post has been exceptional. His strength and low center of gravity make him difficult to back down, and he seems to embrace the challenge of guarding bigs.

    The only on court “adavantage” Steph and Klay have as a duo is in 3 point shooting percentage.That’s it.

    We had good role players last year no doubt, but CP and James have not been surrounded by elite talent. Clint is on his way, but as a whole GS had a much more talented roster. Their backcourt was supported by an all time great scorer and freak in Durant. Because Draymond can push the ball and pass it they can just run to the corners and wait for quick 3’s. KD and Draymond at the 3 and 4 is a huge advantage, skills wise, over Ariza and PJ. And yet we had them beat. I don’t think they or our coaching staff gets enough credit for what they should have pulled off.

    Unfortunately they also have rings and our dynamic duo do not. Ultimately this is a narrative that cannot be overcome unless we beat them and win a ring.

    I posed this simple question to my son. If you gave CP and James KD and gave GS Ariza would GS even have even won a game? Small forward for small forward.It would have been a sweep imho. We had them beat in 6 games without KD on our team. GS was ready to quit.

    I didn’t want to include any advanced stats, just the eye test. I’m only talking talent. Not rings.

    I really became a fan if the nba in the early 80’s. I’m as old school as they get. But I have to admit that from a pure talent standpoint, this backcourt is the best of at least the modern era, and may be the greatest of all time. Rockets fans should enjoy this tandem while we can. After waiting over 20 years for another monster like Dream, I realize now how rare truly elite talents come around.

    My son has a little more ammo to take back to friends in his defense of CP and James, but if I or he really wants to solidify our cases, we have got to win the whole thing. Then the world will acknowledge what I already know.

    James and CP are the most talented backcourt of all time.

    Happy Thanksgiving.
     
  2. BigggReddd

    BigggReddd Member

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    Harden > Both Steph & Klay
    Paul > Both Steph & Klay (maybe not Steph, but certainly Klay)

    The second we traded for Paul I was saying it's the greatest backcourt ever on paper. Bar-none. And they're producing. Both Harden & Paul are Top 15 players of all time when it's all said and done.
     
  3. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Rockets never got the luxury to have pair up a 28 yr old Paul with a 24 yr old Harden. They are the best PG duo in terms of ISO and PnR.

    But in terms of pure shooting there is no other duo better than the Splash Bros.

    Also they move very well off the ball but they are by no bounds perfect ballers.

    Morey got to recognize that players are not just assets or creditors, you get them young, and keep them.
     
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  4. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    They haven't proven it yet. In the 5 WCF games they certainly outplayed the Warriors backcourt.

    If one of our big men was a good passer, our backcourt would be demolishing theirs. It makes a big difference.
     
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    More than the most talented. Might simply be the best ever
     
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  6. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    No Joke-ic.
     
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  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The Warriors have Durant and Green inside.... that’s the difference between the Rockets and Warriors.

    Switch front courts between Hou and GS and see what happens.
     
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  8. Houstunna

    Houstunna The Most Unbiased Fan
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    Praying for playoff health
     
  9. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Contributing Member

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    Theyre the best backcourt period in producing offense whether their own or the whole team's.
     
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  10. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    gary clark, I am looking at you!
     
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  11. hakeem94

    hakeem94 Member

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    why not just the best without any qualification
     
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  12. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    Was pretty obvious last year when it took a CP3 injury and 3 zebras to beat us.
     
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  13. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Why not switch back courts too? Just to see what happens.
     
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  14. Sidarma

    Sidarma Member

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    All I know that we should have win it all if not for the cp3 injury.
    We had the worriers on their feets.
     
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  15. sealclubber1016

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    They are the best backcourt in NBA history. In his prime Paul was an MVP level player, even now he's still top 10. Harden is an MVP level player. Other teams have been better so some will equate that to their backcourt being better, but I can't think of 2 superstar guards on the same team. Plenty of great duos, but not at the combined level of these 2.

    Curry is a superstar, but Thompson is a supporting star that is clearly in a lower tier than the other 3.
     
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  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Curry is not elite at playmaking or defending. Great shooter and leader.

    Harden - 3rd overall pick
    CP - 4th pick


    Curry - 7th pick
    Klay - 11th pick
     
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  17. lookabove

    lookabove Contributing Member

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    Honestly, you wouldn't trade Harden and Paul for Curry/Klay straight up?
     
  18. BaselineFade

    BaselineFade Member
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    Nope.
     
  19. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Would do it for a 25 yr old Curry but right now Curry is 30 and Klay 28.

    He has been as injury prone as CP3 but at least not in the playoffs.

    Harden and Paul for Curry and Durant. Another story.

    Also Houston has to play GSW style, the fans prolly dun want it although Morey would salivate at the shooting.
     
  20. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Paul/Harden is definitely a more talented pair than Steph/Klay, largely because Klay is a distant fourth.

    20 years from now Steph will be pretty much unanimously considered the best of the 4 by a good margin. He'll be a top 10 player in history on most lists outside of Houston and Harden never will be.

    With that said, it's amusing that Harden is penalized so much for his defense while Steph never is.
     

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