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Breaking: Trump's Wall

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Carl Herrera, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    I know you are joking, but from what I understand it is a whole bunch of stuff. Pay is one. But you also then get posted to somewhere in the ass end of nowhere, like Eagle Pass or Nogales and you have to drag your family along. And the cartels love to threaten Border Patrol and their families, in ways that people living within the US borders couldn't get away with.

    Also, it is "low prestige" compared to other federal law enforcement. So most of the agents sign on because they weren't accepted by the FBI or US Marshalls or whatever, so as soon as they beef up their resume with some experience they quickly move on to sexier federal jobs.

    Pay legitimately is part of it, generally the job just really sucks.

    But you know the Roman's used to pay Germanic tribes to become associated military units called foederati to settle on their borders and keep all the other Germanic tribes out, so it actually might not be such a horrible idea.
     
  2. HTM

    HTM Member

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    To some degree, a physical barrier would counter a need for agents. A physical barrier is a tool that prevents people from going between places, you will need a certain amount of agents to make that tool effective but it will be less than the amount of agents needed if no barrier is there at all.

    Some propose more agents as a counter measure to a wall and we currently have a ton of vacancies so this idea that we can "Just hire more agents" isn't really a solution... we have a current need for more agents... add on even more expanded need for more agents? That's not realistic.
     
  3. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Contributing Member
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    Except it doesnt. I know you think you've just hit on a great pro wall argument, but it isnt true. If you dont regularly patrol and defend a wall it is a paper tiger.
     
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  4. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  5. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    Sure, but by how much? You will still need plenty of bodies (more than they have now) with or without the wall.
     
  6. HTM

    HTM Member

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    Um, yea, it does.

    Walls are pretty obviously a resource that requires less man power for keeping people in/out of places than that same area sans a wall.
     
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  7. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Don't waste your energy. They are NPC's who only give the same responses.
     
  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    ... because there is always a tweet from the past:

     
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  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    That's idea has been used throughout history. The Chinese gave titles and paid off Mongol tribes to protect their borders. The English did the same with Scots. The British Empire did it with many of their subjugated people. Often using groups like Gurkhas and Sikhs to fight for the Empire. This ended up turning against them in Malaya during WWII when the Japanese convinced many British Indian troops to turn against the Brits.
     
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  10. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    What does The Great Wall do when it crosses rivers? I know it doesn't follow a river course like the Rio Grande. What did it do to migration patterns?
     
  11. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    I found your answer here!
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Well aint that weasely and unpresidential.

    I'm seriously in literal flabbergastment.
     
  13. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    They were actually rhetorical question for for walnuts who don't think about the reality they are proposing and don't care to consider it. But thanks for the super cool suggestion.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/animalia/wp/2016/11/01/border-walls-are-bad-for-wildlife/
    https://www.newsdeeply.com/water/co...ld-have-lasting-effect-on-rivers-water-supply
    https://qz.com/1353798/the-us-mexico-border-walls-dangerous-costly-side-effect-enormous-floods/
    https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-texas-mexico-border-wall-20180430-htmlstory.html

    The answer on the rivers is: nothing, you could float right past it
     
    #1613 Dubious, Feb 3, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019
  14. jo mama

    jo mama Contributing Member

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    texas monthly article a couple months ago about the wall discussed how its caused flooding in some towns in mexico that have actually killed people.

    long, but good read...

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/t...exas-federal-officials-planning-build-anyway/

    TLWR version...

    The sister cities of Nogales, which were built along a floodplain, had been battered by heavy rains before. Longtime residents still remember other major floods, like one in 1983 that raged across southern Arizona and killed around a dozen people. The 2008 storm, on the other hand, was a typical monsoon, about two inches of rainfall in two hours, and locals wondered why it had been so catastrophic. They also wondered why it had been so much more devastating on the Mexican side.

    They would soon have their answer. Underground, near the massive sinkhole, Mexican engineers discovered that a storm-runoff channel had been blocked by a five-foot-tall concrete barrier that had been constructed a few months earlier by U.S. Customs and Border Protection. As a result, the storm runoff in Mexico was unable to pass through the channel to a shared water treatment plant in Arizona. As pressure mounted, water burst up into the street like a geyser. The nearby border fence had compounded the damage. After getting clogged with storm debris, it had acted as a dam, capturing the floodwaters on the Mexican side rather than allowing the water to run its course on both sides of the border.

    One hundred fifty miles to the west, the same storm system had caused another disaster to unfold that July afternoon. A recently built fifteen-foot steel mesh border fence became choked with several feet of debris during the downpour. Like the fence in Nogales, it effectively turned into a dam. Floodwaters rose as high as seven feet along the fence before pouring into Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument and the nearby towns of Lukeville, Arizona, and Sonoyta, Sonora. Local businesses suffered severe damage.


    It was a disaster foretold. A year earlier, officials at the Organ Pipe monument, a desert tract managed by the National Park Service, had warned CBP and the Department of Homeland Security that during a storm, a fence built there would become plugged with debris, causing the water to back up and flood the surrounding areas. But CBP had dismissed their concerns, issuing a report soon after claiming that its own environmental assessment had found “no significant impact.” According to CBP, the fence “would not impede the flow of water” or cause flooding. So the agency proceeded as planned.

    After the flood, CBP commissioned Michael Baker Corporation (now called Michael Baker International), an engineering and consulting firm, to examine what had gone wrong. According to the report, engineers found that in some cases, as much as six feet of debris had collected on the fences, causing a “water-fall effect” on the other side. Afterward, CBP and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers spent several million dollars retrofitting fences with gates that could be opened to relieve the flooding. But in the summer of 2011, heavy monsoon rains tore through a forty-foot stretch of fence near Organ Pipe, washing the fence away. In 2014, floods in downtown Nogales, Sonora, caused several million dollars in damage. This summer, heavy flooding once again struck Nogales, killing two people. What was once a rare occurrence has become a devastatingly regular phenomenon.
     
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  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    How Trump has changed the Democrats:

    Take Trump's signature issue of border security. Building a barrier along the southern border was once a mainstream position supported by many in the Democratic Party. According to a study done by Cato, over 40 percent of Democrats supported a border wall in multiple opinion polls taken from December 2005 to October 2015. A Washington Post/ABC poll from July 2013 found that 43 percent of Democrats supported building 700 miles of border fencing and adding 20,000 border agents at the cost $46 billion, more than eight times the amount Trump asked for during the government shutdown.

    But after Trump announced his intention to build a wall in 2015, support among Democrats plummeted. By January 2019, only 12 percent of self-identified Democrats supported the border wall according to a Washington Post/ABC poll. Meanwhile, Republicans' support for the wall increased, but not as significantly, rising from 73 percent in 2015 to 87 percent in 2019.​

    https://theweek.com/articles/819298/how-trump-changing-democrats
     
  16. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Fencing already exists. trump wants a wall.
     
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  17. conquistador#11

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    I've never heard of his music but I dislike the notion that he's soft because he's from the U.K!!! What does UK really even mean?

    BELIEVE ME, They have some very bad Mattes in the UK. They ride around in these very expensive and beautiful horses wearing luxurious harris tweed suits in bold patterns, better than anything in the U.S. One moment they're drinking like a future supreme court justice and the next they'll take their hats that have razors on them and start cutting people's eyes out. Very gruesome. Very brutal. Their language doesn't sound tough but you should fear them. Very crafty people.

     
  18. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    Yes, this. The British were dismayed, aghast, at the "betrayal" of their good little Indians. I thought we were buddies. How can you turn on us?

    Getting treated like the Imperial Porch N**** made the Indian troops more than a little resentful. The Japanese, although very different than the Indians, and certainly capable of mendacity, could at least say we're all Asians.....why do you put up with that white man bull****?
     
  19. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Contributing Member

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    Trump is going full nativist. Stephen The Forehead Miller and his, "If it were up to me, no other immigrant would set foot on American soil."
     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I don't know who those people might be, but I'm not asking for more agents either.

    And I'd probably change back with a different president. The article paints it as though Democrats only oppose because a Republican is demanding it. I can't speak for the Democrats, but for myself I oppose, not because a Republican wants it, but because I object to the way he tries to get it. He wants it for the wrong reasons (a political stunt to win an election), will use it for the wrong ends (to villainize hispanics), because his motivations are wrong he won't build it fit to purpose (he'll overbuild and neglect other, more efficacious measures), and he won't pursue it in a regular democratic legislative fashion (like compromising on bipartisan legislation that tries to apply real and holistic solutions to our malingering immigration policy problem). A wall proposal in 2013 is fundamentally different from a wall proposal in 2019.

    Things have gotten more complicated, but we still do this. Russia cultivates a sphere of influence in their bordering countries to make sure they have friendlies there, which is why they're so pissed about Ukraine. The US maintains alliances with Europe, and with Japan and Australia to put bodies between us and Russia and China.
     

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