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Barkley : Harden is the greatest offensive talent to ever play

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Caprah, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Did he say he curled 180 or that he benched 500? I can’t find where it says he benched 500.
     
  2. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    That 500 lbs is really messing with your mind.

    Even when a professional lifter opines that the weight is feasible for a man of Wilt's size and girth.
     
  3. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Sure man. Your logic is terrible.
     
  4. riko

    riko Member

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    I don’t know if wilt did it easily or did it at all but my point was given wilts bone structure ( and bone structure in upper strength is important) and overall size it’s not impossible. Again conditioning is vital. Power lifters are conditioned for explosive lifts like him. That’s how I’m conditioned to. Lots of drop sets to finish off to build strength and endurance .

    What’s the big deal if wilt did it or not? The gym I train in a lot and I mean a lot of dudes lift 450 pounds regularly . My 200 kgs lift wasn’t all that impressive there.
    Given a lot of them look like walking beef sticks lol
     
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  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He said he curled 180. I have no idea if he benched 500. I know Arnold has said Wilt was extremely strong but no idea on what his bench was.

    500 is a lot of weight. I know I had someone in Sugar Land that owned a gym tell me he personally saw Shaq do a 400 lbs rep.
     
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  6. SirCharlesFan

    SirCharlesFan Contributing Member

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    First name Sir, middle name Charles, last name Fan, dig it!
     
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  7. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Right. I’ve seen the quote from Arnold about Wilt’s tricep press but it’s not really clear what type of press he’s talking about. Either way it’s not correlative to the bench press which is significantly impacted by arm length.

    I could see Shaq throwing up 400. That’s infinitely more believable for Wilt too.
     
  8. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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  9. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Right it’s not a big deal, it’s just a discussion for fun.
    Also If you say anything negative about a player from the ‘60s Drock has a fit so that’s fun too. : )

    I think you’re confusing Olympic lifters and power lifters. The latter most certainly not associated with conditioning though certainly well conditioned power lifters exist and thrive. Olympic lifters are explosive beasts. This is something that Wilt is said to have thrived in.

    There are a lot of things that go into a big bench press and bar travel is a huge part of that. Wilt had to cover like 3 feet of arm to get the bar down and up. Moving 500lbs every extra inch is no joke.
     
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  10. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    I’ll say one more thing about Wilt. Harden is the superior offensive player. And I think he’s slept with more women. :p
     
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  11. psaman17

    psaman17 Member

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    I dont deny that he's one of the greatest athlete of all time but the thing with Wilt is that its hard to take him seriously sometimes......

    https://www.nytimes.com/1987/03/01/sports/the-night-chamberlain-scored-100.html

    Everday was an adventure with Chamberlain. I wish we had reality TV back in the 70s. I would've liked to see Wilt casually wrestle a mountain lion.
     
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  12. Sanctity

    Sanctity Member

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    Stroking his ego and fans.

     
  13. riko

    riko Member

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    I’ve seen a lot of power lifters in pristine condition. They don’t all have big guts .
     
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  14. BigM

    BigM Contributing Member

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    Right there’s a lot of power lifters in phenomenal shape. I mentioned that.
     
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  15. riko

    riko Member

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    And yes I usually lift by body weight ratio. That iis the concept of Olympic kind of training. The concept is if you can lift two hundred percent of you’re body weight your u have done it perfectly and 150 percent is a pass. The minimum is 100 percent of you’re weight .
    When I was cutting up I would do body weight training less weights more push-ups, pull ups and so on.
     
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  16. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    When it comes to Wilt benching 600, that's just flat out not true.

    I'll put it this way, this guy is Aaron Donald he maxes at 500

    [​IMG]

    This is Larry Allen, he maxed out at over 700 lbs

    [​IMG]

    This is Wilt Chamberlain

    [​IMG]

    Those other two have significantly shorter, and stronger arms than Wilt. The talk about him benching 600 is mere legend....and that's the problem, you have to sort out what is BS legend and what is truth.

    This is Dwight Howard, he maxes out at 365, his arm length and arm size is much closer to what Wilt had than people who can legitimately bench 500-600

    [​IMG]

    IMO I think that's more in line with the truth when it comes to Wilt....and that's still very, VERY strong.
     
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  17. OkayAyeReloaded

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    Got a little time but I'll try to touch base on this and expand more later if possible.

    First Wilt was an all time great athlete, and would be a HOF player in any era. He deserves to be in the top ten, and shouldn't be underrated in that respect.

    But when you take a closer look at his numbers and his play, you find that he isn't as good as you thought and tends to get overrated when people simply look at raw numbers.

    For example, here's Wilt's career RS scoring numbers.

    [​IMG]

    He had 50 ppg game seasons back then, which are amazing when you first look at it right?

    But here is how he performed in the playoffs, where Wilt was notorious for playing worse against tougher competition.

    [​IMG]

    Now keep in mind, these are still raw numbers. We haven't gotten into how high the pace was back then inflating his averages, his compeition level or other factors.

    Here is an old article from Neil Paine of 538 fame, when he was in his BBref days:


    https://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/indexed0f.html?p=1423

    So basically those guady numbers are greatly inflated by pace and sheer possesions, not even mentioning the talent level.

    But let's compare Wilt and Harden more directly.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    So Harden is more efficient, a much better shooter, pass/playmaker and a better FT drawer than Wilt in the RS whereas Wilt is better drawing fouls in the PO. Again keep in mind Wilt was a very poor FT shooter and this was a strategy used back then much like Hack a Shaq in recent decades.

    The era rules for Wilt then were much more big man friendly and the era rules now are much more guard friendly for Harden.

    But accounting for rule differences, era strength, skillset and most notably passing/playmaking, Wilt is an all time great no doubt, but Harden is a better offensive player imo.
     
    #137 OkayAyeReloaded, Aug 10, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  18. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    The interesting thing about Wilt was his ability to stay on the floor for full 48 minutes without getting into foul trouble. That's unheard of in the modern era for centers. I wonder how many points he allowed trying to avoid committing a foul.

    I believe the offensive goal tending rules were also different back then. The numbers look insane, but when you put them in context and also watch some of the older games (many are available on Youtube) it's not quite as impressive.
     
  19. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Offensive goaltending rules enforced in his era. Began with Mikan then tightened further when Wilt in NBA.
     
  20. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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