[Atlantic] The Case for Impeachment...Now.

A couple of things on emoluments. As it relates to collusion the whole idea of someone running for president to enrich themselves is ridiculous as if its easy to become president.

Secondly the only evidence is that foreign governments used his hotel which is totally viable given its location. It seems to me you have to make the case that using the hotels were a bribe

 

Impeach immediately.

Do everything possible to get him to resign.

Continue investgiations into criminal activity, in Trump, Trump Jr., Eric, Ivanka, Kushner and anyone else nearby.

It's not ok to cheat, lie and scheme. It's criminal if done illegally. This is elementary school level stuff.

 

Emoluments is one of five possible articles of impeachment that could be introduced against trump. While some may think they aren't important, I think they were included in the U.S. Constitution to prevent the possibility that a President would make decisions based solely on personal financial gains.

The other four possible articles of impeachment: money laundering, perjury, and obstruction of justice, and criminal conspiracy (what you folks confuse with "collusion"). Each of these would be separate articles of impeachments though may have multiple charges (eg, firing Comey to protect himself, directing cohen to lie to congress to protect himself, destruction of evidence, etc). I don't know what evidence Mueller has, so he mayonly have evidence to support one or all of these (and possibly more).

I am not a lawyer and especially not a constitutional lawyer, so if any of this wrong have at it. But I am pretty sure what I've written is correct.

 

Hey Sam, it may be only on my end, but not seeing what you posted.

 

...I think the purpose (or one purpose, if not the only one at this current juncture) is to take this debate about the president...

...his behavior, his associations, et al...

...out of the public arena and back into the political one, where it belongs.

You know the Republican governor of Georgia suggested to federal workers at Delta Airlines that they go on strike...? Something which federal workers cannot do because it's illegal?

That governor feels like if those workers did that, it would force others in positions of power to act on getting this whole shutdown thing resolved.

Think about that for a minute.

A governor (a republican governor, at that...law-and-order, all-praise-of-power party) asking federal employees to break the law, in order to get other people who are sworn to uphold and defend the law to do the jobs they were elected to do?

...(Not to mention the irony of one ideology decidedly against unionizing of workers considering unionizing workers to get government to assess and meet that groups' needs)...

Look, I get it. What's the point of picking a fight if the goal isn't to beat the crap out of your opponent?

And what's the point of picking a fight and then having the temerity to complain about getting hit?

The point, if there is any in considering proceeding with an impeachment proceeding, is precisely because of the need for some semblance of order and process and procedure to return to our government. And part of that is to stop allowing for abdication of responsibility by those elected officials whose functions in our government must supersede personal ambition or animus.

If anybody had watched CSPAN yesterday, we would have seen something remarkable happen. Democratic Senator Tim Kaine took the floor in the Senate and offered motions to bring those appropriations bills to the floor (which were already passed through the House of Representatives with bipartisan support) for vote, which would reopen the government and continue with whatever border security negotiations had to be conducted. Mitch McConnell obviously objected to those motions, as expected, but that's what was fascinating about it.

It is not procedure for the Senate majority leader to introduce bills to the floor for debate or vote. Any senator has the ability to do that. It is simply decorum offered to the Majority leader that is followed now. If McConnell had not been present, and the Senators agreed to bring the bills to the floor to vote, the government could probably be opened by now and all those furloughed federal employees (who can't strike or otherwise not be present and doing their jobs) would be back to working.

As if anybody cared about any of that in the first place.

These political fights we get to watch now used to go on behind the scenes for decades, long before performance before a camera had become the way to debate policy. Think of it like this: usually, you do what you can to keep from arguing about the bills in front of the kids.

What would be accomplished if there was any impeachment proceeding brought against the president?

A lot of people would have to do their jobs, for one thing.

...and not the ones working for free, either...

 

not sure if you realize it, but your defense is "ridiculousness". I don't think that's a good defense for breaking the law. I wouldn't advice you considering breaking a law based on that.

 

You know that emoluments is like a Constitutional thing, right?

 

Your logic here is just laughable, so because winning the presidency is hard it means that it's ridiculous that someone could use the position to enrich themselves? Huh? Here's an idea: maybe Trump was using his candidacy to help give his brand even more exposure and then, once he realized that he could potentially become president, started looking into the ways that he could use the position itself to further enrich himself.

 

And?

 

i saw that and how is it worse than anything else?

Until the FBI shows receipts it's Cohen's word against the family.

 

I also think he ran to increase his brand and saw he could win. He also spent millions of his own money and won't recoup it from a few nights by some dignitaries at his hotel

 

I agree with all of that but starting impeachment at this point will not get him out of office.

the only thing it would is solidify the Republican party.

Now once the Mueller report is out,that might change things.

 

Cohen has more motivation to tell the truth here because Mueller would find out if he lied or not which would extend his prison sentence.

Mueller already knows if Cohen lied. He wouldn't use Cohen's testimony unless he already corroborated his statement with corroborating witnesses and private correspondences .

 

Johnson?

That was in the 1800's which is hardly a barometer of what would happen now.
I believe Trumps political future is cooked anyway, if not there is nothing an impeachment can do to it.

 

I don't want him impeached. I want him removed from office. That requires 2/3 of the Senators to vote against him. You aren't getting 19 Republican Senators to jump ship based on the Stormy Daniels payments, firing Comey, etc. It is has to be an earth shattering revelation most likely involving Russia from the Mueller report. You can't jump the gun and start impeachment before Mueller is finished. Republicans will rally behind him with the cries of a witch hunt. Until you have that Watergate moment where Republicans can't stand behind him it is a waste of time.

 

I agree and that's why I want the Mueller report to lay out all of the facts.

it's not like Cohen has no reason to lie or embellish the truth.

 

They have the receipts.