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[Atlantic] The Case for Impeachment...Now.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SamFisher, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    She is actually doing her job well and it's why she deserves the job.

    Now if she wanted to stop all investigations currently in Congress you would have a point.

    She is entirely right that he is not worth all of the time and political capital I would take to start the process now when he would not be impeached in the Senate.

    And you notice she did not take impeachment of the table completely.
     
  2. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    what exactly do you think he is winning?

    Do you think the fact that he employed crooks and liars in his inner circle is a winning look?
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    I'm not talking about her job as party leader, I'm talking about her job as a member/Speaker of the House of Representatives.

    Impeachment isn't just "is there the political will" question - it's a legal and ethical question as well, and Congress and Pelosi is duty bound to explore it. Unlike some parts of the constitution, there's a lot of historical record around this one and it's unambiguously clear that the political calculation is not the only one at issue here - it's not that the House has the option of impeachment, it's that the House is obliged to impeach if there's sufficient evidence of Impeachable acts.

    Further, as detailed previously - Impeachment isn't an outcome, it's a process. If Trump survives after a trial - that is perfectly fine. That's the point of a trial.

    But to allow him to loophole-crime his way out of it, due to some misguided Beltway conventional wisdom political view, is a real problem for the fate of the Republic. The Democrats have the power to impeach now. That's the remedy for this situation since teh DOJ obviously won't act.

    If they don't exercise it the options are maybe even worse. Let's say NY State charges the President with state racketeering and his organization (and there seems to be ample grounds for this, given the scam-like nature of the Trump organization that is beginning to unravel. Then teh Supreme court has to do somethign terrible, basically making the President immune from state-level crimes or make the President subject to the will or whim of every piss-ant state prosecutor. Neither of these outcomes is good.

    That is why impeachment needs to be strongly considered, and not ruled out because "meh, politics!" That's how the Republic dies.
     
    Harrisment likes this.
  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    American Taliban has won this time.

    Almighty Dallah is Greatest!
     
  5. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Impeachment is still being considered did she say it was completely off the table?

    And are completely sure there is sufficient evidence to impeach that seems to be highly debatable.

    Trump and his entities are already under investigation and he will not be president forever how does a trial for impeachment protect the Republic?

    doesn't these investigations do the same to protect the Republic and uncover crimes?

    What are you really hoping to accomplish?
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    There's a prescribed remedy for a President like Trump.

    Not only is there a prescribed remedy, there's a good deal of evidence that it's a required remedy.

    These investigations don't do the same. They help, sure, but they don't do the same thing.

    The Presidency shouldn't be a "run the clock out on the statute of limitations for the crimes I committed to win it" institution.

    But, without even trying to impeach or indict the president, that is what it risks becoming.

    This is self-evidently a threat to rule of law, just like Trump himself seeks to destroy it as much as he can.

    As for what i hope to accomplish - doing the right thing is an accomplishment in and of itself, but otherwise it's all extensively detailed in the article that started this thread.
     
  7. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    So how is impeachment through the House a remedy for Trump?

    What exactly gets solved by only getting a vote through the house?

    You have ignored the fact that criminal investigations are ongoing, what is exactly endangered of not being prosecuted because of statute of limitations?

    This evidence to speak of is highly debatable even among veteran law enforcement officials.

    Just because you think it's the right thing to do does not make it so.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    "The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."
     
  9. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    This is a clear sign that Pelosi knows Mueller didn't find anything... she is getting yall ready.
     
    cml750 likes this.
  10. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Why are you ignoring the fact there is no chance the Senate would start impeachment proceedings let alone vote to remove him?

    like I said before what exactly are you accomplishing if you can't remove him from office?
     
  11. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Contributing Member

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    Pretty sad when Pelosi is the voice of reason.
     
    cml750 likes this.
  12. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    I don't have to get ready for a urging I have already got enough info to know he is the worst president in modern history just because of the company he kept and his hiring practices.

    Thanks Mueller.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The House has the sole power to start impeachment. If you want to go ahead and argue that the Senate can just ignore it and not hold the rtiral because it feels like it, sure I guess you could try to make that argument.

    I suspect it woudl not be well received by the courts, but it's better than allowing it to claim it by default.

    That's what a lot of this silliness is about. Why would anybody just acquiesce in the disingenous, destructive procedural tactics the very worst extremists? At least make them debase themselves by doing it.

    The focus should not be on Pelosi for beginning impeachment, it should be on the morally and ethically bankrupt GOP for opposing it.
     
  14. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    I wisn Republicans would start using a voice of reason.
     
  15. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    How long before you create a new coping mechanism?
     
  16. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    So you just want to start impeachment knowing it will take a court decision to even get the Senate to continue it knowing that the votes are not there.

    Just to somehow shame the Republicans?

    We already know they have no shame.S

    Nobody is acquiescing anything ther
    I am not the one who needs a coping mechanism.
     
  17. Harrisment

    Harrisment i had suffice

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    Impeachment is a process that takes place in the House. Trial/removal from office is a separate process which takes place in the Senate. The Senate does not hold impeachment proceedings.
     
  18. biff17

    biff17 Member

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    Ok, did not know the proper term for the Senate process.
     
  19. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    If I were turtle, I would begin the trial immediately after the House presents the articles of impeachment.
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    The case for impeachment is as strong as ever.

    Time to move.
     
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