[Atlantic Monthly] The Humiliation of Aziz Ansari

This is reminiscent of the time when troubled people, mostly women, went through therapy that led them to recall repressed sexual abuse in their past. But the sexual abuse never happened. Lots of relationships were ruined and eventually the techniques involved were delegitimized.

Not that what this woman went through was appropriate, but the date didn't meet her expectations and that made her feel shame. She wanted to find a reason for her disappointing date that would absolve her of any fault. She became her own therapist and through sessions with agreeing confidantes she ended up confirming her belief that she was sexually assaulted.

 

I don’t want to undermine the seriousness of sexual assault.

But reading that Aziz Ansari thing was just ridiculous. He didn’t force her into anything. At any point during that whole time, she could have just left...

Very bizarre.

If I were about 10 years younger I’d be scared to even go on dates. No telling when you’ll be accused of sexual assault.

 

Men if you make more than a hundred grand a year, invest in sexual consent contracts. The conversations will be awkward at first but it takes all the power out of "he said, she said". Not saying that the accuser is lying but I would be more inclined to believe her had she filed a police report instead of texting the page 6 editor.The me too movement needs to focus its rage or it will end up as big a punchline as woke

 

The "me too" movement may very well end up destroying the lives of a lot of innocent men. The stories my wife tells me about what she went through working at law firms as an attractive young lady before we met are shocking. She was propositioned regularly by lawyers and clients, offered many times to be set up in a "sugar daddy" situation, and even worked for a pervert one time that she had to threaten to turn him in to find her another job within the law firm which he ended up doing. The one thing she did every time was stay strong and simply said no. While the pervert who used his position of power to try to force her into something went way over the line and probably should have gotten in some kind of trouble for his actions, the others never bothered her after she rejected them. In today's climate, any of those guys could easily have their lives destroyed for those types of actions. When a man abuses a position of power to try to force women to do things they should get into trouble. If a man in power simply propositions a woman, she can either accept or reject him. She has all the power and if he does not threaten to use his position to undermine her for rejecting his advances then there is really no harm done. In the story about Ansari, I just do not see any way that the woman is a victim.

For a man today it is probably a good policy to never put yourself in a position where you can get in trouble. I never do anything that can be taken as an advance with the females that work for me. I am friends with all of them yet only deal with them in a professional way and never put myself in compromising position. I am very glad I am no longer in the dating scene with everything going on today. The best thing any many can do is find the right woman, treat her right, put a ring on her finger and never stray. Never proposition a woman and never let yourself get in a position where a woman can accuse you of doing anything wrong. If you are in a a position of power and let yourself get in such a situation, you could easily lose everything even if you didn't do anything wrong. Through 25 years of marriage, that policy has kept me from any type of trouble.

 

See: the latest season of Curb Your Enthusiasm

 

On a serious note a friend of mine the other day said that really this movement is like a cultural revolution and like all revolutions, they do go too far at some point. They eventually settle into a place of realistic cultural change. Men in power are certainly put on notice. That’s a good thing and hope it lasts.

Only place it hasn’t affected is the White House where apparently it’s cool to grab a little pu$$y and be a racist, but other than that I think we are seeing lasting change even though yes... some folks are going to get humiliated in the process. Doesn’t mean the whole “MeToo” movement isn’t massively having change for the good. Yes you will still find a way to get busy without going to jail. Stop acting like your the victim all the damn time dudes. Even with your sexuality.

 

She shouldn't have to "figure out how to get" anything- not giving her exactly what she wanted, is basically rape. Aziz Ansari, consider yourself HUMILIATED! #MeToo

 

I like his Netflix show. Not sure if he was planning on doing another season, but I hope they don’t drop it over this.

 

Good Recall. I had forgotten about that madness.

Rocket River

 

Interesting take. Not wrong at all.
For decades our country has been trying to convince people that MARRIAGE IS THE BEST WAY
With the advent of the women's rights movement, sexual revolution and Large Divorce settlements /one sided child support
Marriage has become a very negative thing among me .. . with good reason
Why get married? Sex? It is not that hard to get now . .. probably get more single than married
Companionship - I got my BROS!!!! and Sex Partners can be friends too so . . .
Money? Nah I save by not having a wife

So now here we are with this . . .. Not saying you were intimating it but . . . FEAR!! FEAR might be the thing that will bring men back to the Marriage negotiation table.

Rocket River

 

What I’d like to see from this movement is discussion on what consent means, and how women are sometimes compelled to give mixed signals because they feel intimidated in the moment and how men are sometimes negligent or just bad at reading those mixed signals. The movement should be focused on coming to a common understanding on how men and women should behave with each other, because clearly there is a disconnect. One would think Ansari would be particularly adept at this —didn’t he write a book about this?

It is unhelpful to just demonize one side in these encounters when they may genuinely think what’s happening is consensual in the moment.

Apparently this woman said at some point while in his home that she doesn’t want to feel like she is being forced to do something, because otherwise she’d hate him. And after that he gestures for her to give him oral sex. From his mind, he may have considered the gesture an unspoken: “OK, would you be cool with this?” From her mind, she apparently viewed it as a command: “I don’t care what you want. Give me a blowjob.”

It is completely possible for two people to read that situation differently, in the moment. To me, that is what I take from this. Not “Ansari is a pig and a hypocrite who needs to be made an example of.”

 

I had a face book conversion that was basically this:
HER: IF a man pressures, begs, conjoles, guilts, or manipulates a woman into giving him sex . . . .IT IS RAPE!!
ME: So . . . IF a woman pressures, begs, conjoles, guilts, or manipulates a man into giving her money . . . .Is that theft?
HER: OH MY GOD!! FALSE EQUIVALENCY!!! SEX IS NOT MONEY!! YOU all are the same!!

It did not go up from there

Rocket River

 

The reality seems to be
"HE SHOULD HAVE JUST KNOWN!!!"
The concept of trying to send signals, hints, fricking morse code . . is just open to so much misinterpretation and miscommunication
JUST SAY THE D*MN THING

All the women in that column were of the mind.. . that HE COULD NOT POSSIBLY NOT KNOWN!!!!
But she never said anything . . until later . . . .. .
Up and until she outright said . . I AM UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS . . . . I cannot put him on the hook
for not reading the tea leaves correctly.

1. some people are just blind
2. some people are stupid
3. some people see the signs and ignore them
4. some people don't care about the signs

The problem is. . . you cannot tell them apart

Rocket River

 

Maybe Ansari and CK can come out with a joint venture where they co-star in a sitcom of dating in the 21st century titled #WeToo.

 

One of many sad parts of this was that I think he was actually into her, which was part of what (I think?) she wanted.

Yikes-o-Rama.

Atlantic piece is pretty interesting. Babe piece seems willfully incomplete, like a hackneyed court case, TBH.

 

Agreed.
But I don't think he was that into her
I think he Identified her as a groupie (right or wrong) and then tried to treat her like one

Rocket River

 

This is not sexual assault at all. This is unfair and a woman using the #metoo movement to feel empowered and go on the attack.

But this shouldn't be used to discredit women who have been sexually assaulted or harassed in the workplace. There is a line. And we shouldn't let the misplaced accusers take away from the legitimate ones. I hope women stand of for Ansari. The movement depends on it.

 

Who are you to decide what is and isn't valid to an oppressed group?

 

The law decides what is and what is not valid. He did not break any law and what he did is not sexual assault.