Well, he has been healthy enough to throw over 160 innings since the beginning of last year, so if he isn't healthy enough to be pitching he is a bad ass lol
Bregman + martes is basically what got Chris sale. Maybe throw in a Dawson and a teoscar and you have a sale type return. No way they are going to be giving up bregman, martes plus more for degrom.
(moving to appropriate thread since I'm going to expand) I'm with you. In a year where things are going *this* well, I'd prefer to hold on to guys like Springer and Marisnick for their clubhouse value (as far as I can tell) in addition whatever they bring as a player. I'm all for tweaking, but you don't want to disrupt the chemistry too much if you can avoid it. If it's something that nets a no-doubt WS type of player (deGrom, for example--not that I think he's gettable) and you have to do it, then fine. Even still, it's hard to imagine someone asking for Jake over Fisher. Makes me wonder--where do you guys think the Astros value Marisnick vs. Fisher right now, given what Jake's doing this year, in addition to his obvious defensive value? I'd certainly try to sell Fisher as more valuable...but I think internally, I'd value them similarly at the moment.
Coming into the year Fisher ranked pretty high on both KATOH+ and KATOH among position prospects. Obviously nothing has hurt his rankings sense then and should easily be a consensus top 50 prospect now. He has improved a lot in strikeouts which was the biggest ding against him. His first taste in the major leagues was a success and one of the better ones among Astro prospects recently. He's a everyday starter with a good chance becoming an impact player. Marisnick is having his best season yet but I don't think any serious person believes hes an everyday guy. He continues to put up some of the worse plate discipline numbers in baseball. He strikes out 35% of the time. He is getting more playing time but his overall numbers are coming back down to earth as the season goes on. He's a 4th OFer and occasional starter and probably the best one in baseball for that role. I have Fisher ahead of Marisnick right now and the gap continues to grow for me. He is a starter and Marisnick is not.
I think odds are good that Fisher is a starter. That said, I don't think there are 90 outfielders better than Marisnick. I'd put him as a guy that can be a bad starter, but would rather he play 4th OF role. I don't think there is conflict between them at the moment as I'm not sure Fisher could play the 4th OF role well and I think Astros would prefer to have Marisnick be a good 4th OF than a bad starter.
Don't see how Hosmer fits in unless Bregman is going to Tampa (moving Yuli to 3B). That would be a hard core move. Unfortunately guys on MLB Network don't have a strong track record when it comes to that type of speculation.
I keep hoping for a Gray/Alonso deal. A's are in such a different place than the Astros such that it should help them be a match as trade partners.
Yep. Marisnick is crashing back down to earth and doesn't really have any significant trade value. Granted, some of it bad luck as his BABIP has also dropped well below league average. But it was significantly above league-average the first two months of the season. Basically, the more he plays, the more his flaws are revealed. If the Astros are going to realistically trade a player on their MLB roster, Bregman is the one that will draw the most interest and get the most in return.
You're taking the external view, which is fine. But what I was trying to get at earlier was, what would the Astros rather do right now, irrespective of which player has more value? I'd argue that even though Marisnick doesn't have significant trade value as you said, I believe moving him off their major league roster would be an issue in terms of skill-set and chemistry, and they'd be just as happy to move Fisher--even though there's a large difference in value.
I'm w/ you on this Joe Joe. Do they have a bullpen arm we could rope into this deal also? I'm perfectly fine with DK, LMJ, and Gray starting my first three playoff games. Putting Yonder's bat @ DH (he's a terrible 1st baseman) would be insane but what do we do w/ Beltran? I don't trust Yonder to play anywhere in the field and the same goes for Beltran.
Yeah I am a hard sell on this trade idea. I would be fine with getting Gray, but Alonso has historically been a very average hitter. I don't see how he offers anything better than Gurriel. If you play him at DH then he takes away ABs from Beltran and Gattis. I'd rather have Beltran hitting in the postseason. I just don't see how Alonso would fit very well. It seems like it would be a sideways move, and if that's the case why mess with the current chemistry. On somewhat of a side note, Gurriel is clearly making strides as he sees more major league pitches. I think he can continue to adjust and get better going forward.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I think Cueto would be a great fit. He has the World Series and postseason experience plus he can eat innings--something we desperately need. He hasn't pitched great this year but has been a lot better lately. Not to mention he would likely cost much less than others given his contract situation and the Giants lack of contending.
I think Alonso's contract is up at the end of the year and he's 30 years old, so it's not like we'd be making a long term commitment or be counting on him beyond this season. Yes, Alonzo is having a career year but Beltran may be having a career nadir... that's what I (and I think Joe Joe) want to take advantage of. He would take our lineup from ridiculous to ****ing ridiculous and that's the only reason I'm entertaining it. Since Alonzo is not signed long term, they wouldn't want a huge haul for him (I assume), but if we maxed out at getting Gray and a LOOGY, I'd be very, very happy with that.
He changed his swing this year such that his batted ball profile is very different. He's trying to get the ball in air more and hit it harder when he gets it in the air. While I am not banking on him being as good as he's been this year so far, I think he's shown that he's better than he was, better than Beltran, and better than Yuli.
The issue I have with trading for Alonso is the potential strife it could cause in the locker room. Beltran might be tailing off towards the end of his career, but the influence he has on the rest of the guys in the locker room is irreplaceable. I wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize the chemistry of this team. Also, like another poster was saying, Gurriel is clearly getting more comfortable with Major League pitching, and I just don't think Alonso moves the needle all that much in terms of increasing our title odds vs. what resources it would take to get him.
Let's stop talking about the Astros potentially trading away an established major leaguer. Might they trade Fisher or Paulino or Martes (all of whom have seen some time in the MLB)? Sure. And that would be perfectly reasonable depending on the player(s) they get in return. But there is no way they are going to trade away an established member of this team. Trading away Bregman? Won't happen. Trading Marisnick? Won't happen. Sure, neither Bregman or Jake are playing at an other-worldly level this season, but messing with the clubhouse/lineup chemistry would be an incredibly terrible move. I'm also pretty sure that Luhnow has already come out and said that they won't be messing with the major league roster in any potential trade. Could be wrong on that but I believe I read that in an interview he did a few weeks back.
I agree with this, Beltran means a lot to this team and his experience would mean much more in the playoffs.
Alonso is the DJ for the A's locker room if I recall correctly and is generally well liked. I'm thinking he will fit in with Club Astros. Beltran and Aoki are the weakest links for the Astros. Aoki probably can be replaced by Fisher. Alonso would not have to hit that well to increase Astros WS odds as much as a player at another position except a TOR SP. If he hits wells, he could provide a ton of value. Considering he's on the A's and on last year of deal, I am thinking he would not cost Tucker, Fisher, Martes, Paulino, Perez, and Whitley. I am thinking A's would want something like Reed, Davis, and Armenteros (though probably different guys that A's like for whatever reason).
