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As we start to "re-open"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ThatBoyNick, Apr 24, 2020.

  1. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Something like this is going to be necessary if a state is serious about keeping Covid under control. New York City is clearly very vulnerable to rapid spread due to the density.

    Wish the whole country was under control so things like this weren’t necessary, but that’s not the reality we live in.

    If states like Vermont/Maine/NH closed their borders they could probably end community transmission before the year ends.
     
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  2. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    I have never agreed with looters and violence!!

    There will always be looters, and people trying to take advantage of any situation. Scammers come out of the woodworks after a hurricane or disaster. It's sad, but reality. The only bright spot for some is that their insurance will cover the damages or looting I hope, but it's a horrible thing to have your property robbed or destroyed.
    Don't confuse criminals with protesters who aren't criminals.

    Its weird though, that you are fine with the President grifting off his Presidency. It costs about $600,000 every time he plays golf to the taxpayers. Then, he makes money off them staying at his resort to protect him.
    https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnews...nald-trump-golf-rounds-cost-taxpayers-107139/

    Some looters stealing shoes, TV's, junk from dollar stores, etc.. would never add up to the money we spend in one weekend on Trump's entertainment. All criminals should be locked up period. Trump profiting off his resorts is a white collar crime he gets away with. Where's the outrage? I'm sure there's a lot of shady money going into his family's pockets. Hopefully they finally get caught.

    As for people protesting for Black Lives Matter or other issues that our country needs to fix, well most of those people did wear masks. Most of the ones who didn't wear masks were the ones who were supporting Trump, not the protesters.

    I personally wouldn't get into any crowd, even with a mask, but that's just me. I can understand people being so angry, scared, and fed up with being treated differently, and killed by police who are supposed to serve and protect. Unless you've lived their life, or grieved for a loved one who was beaten down or killed, then you can't possibly understand their need for change or their desperation.

    Those 250,000 or so bikers who will come rolling into Sturgis to mingle mask free in masses and party it up for 10 days are simply being irresponsible and wreckless. Who knows how many bars, stores, motels, restaurants and other pit stops they will stop in when they leave Sturgis, on their travels back to where they came from. It's nuts.

    Just watch the cam next week and see how many wear masks. I haven't seen one yet, but the party hasn't begun either. I can guarantee you won't see all the masks on those people you saw at all the protests. It won't even be close.
     
    #3022 deb4rockets, Aug 6, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020
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  3. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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  4. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Whoever wrote that for Biden doesn’t have a clue. Remember Biden said early on that Trump was being xenophobic to shut down flights from China. He’s clueless.

    and when the dust settles on covid, we will find that no matter what anyone did (globally), that once this virus catches fire, it spreads to a high percentage of the population, stays for 2-3 months, and then leaves. It even played out that was in the US, when looked at state by state. The “experts” haven’t had a clue since the beginning on this.
     
  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  6. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Why exactly do you like Trump? It's mind-blowing at this point to support a pathological lying narcissist.
     
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  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "What Would We Wish We Had Done?":

    http://theglitteringeye.com/what-would-we-wish-we-had-done/

    What Would We Wish We Had Done?
    Dave Schuler August 6, 2020

    I find myself largely in agreement with the editors of the Washington Post, unsurprising since they’re now saying much what I’ve been saying all along:

    VACCINE OPTIMISM is understandable in these days of anxiety about the virus. Almost every day, there are upbeat reports about a vaccine starting a new phase of clinical trials, and the worldwide research effort spans technologies old and new. Surely a safe and effective vaccine must arrive before too long — as promised, in “warp speed,” such as later this year or early next?

    A dose of realism would be prudent. Vaccines are truly remarkable medicine and have proved effective in stopping diseases such as measles and polio. But they are not simple to discover, manufacture or distribute. Many research efforts fail. The first clinical trial for an HIV vaccine was in 1987, and there still isn’t one, despite much hard work. As Carolyn Y. Johnson reported in The Post on Monday, once a vaccine is found to be safe and effective, the process will be at the beginning, not the end. Vaccines must be manufactured to exacting standards. Distributing the vaccine fairly to people in the United States and around the world will strain health networks, the supply chain, public trust and global cooperation. This may take months or, quite likely, years.

    Another reason for caution is that the vaccine timeline depends on human physiology. It may take a while to build up the antibodies to fight the novel coronavirus. A second inoculation may be required. Immunity could be short-lived or partial. Also, it is possible that the first vaccines to win approval may not be perfect, and not work all the time on everyone.

    That last is one area of disagreement. I think that a vaccine whose benefits are extremely short-lived or, worse, unpredictable in its prophylactic effect would actually be worse than no vaccine at all.

    They conclude:

    Let’s suppose it is summer of 2022, and there is still no vaccine. What would we wish we had done today? Let’s do it.

    Okay, what would that be? And should we be preparing for a vaccine at all? My speculation is that of materials and personnel personnel will be the graver bottleneck. Maybe I’m overestimating that since nowadays every Walgreens is offering flu vaccinations.

    I think we should be preparing for the eventuality that a practical vaccine for SARS-CoV-2 is never developed. What would we be doing in that case? I don’t know but I know what we should not be doing. We should not be threatening to close down businesses due to a rising test positivity rate as long as the risk of a system failure in the health care system is nominal as is the case in Illinois.​
     
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  8. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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  9. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    This is the same genius mayor who asked criminals to "take a break" for a while until covid is resolved. We're talking about a real mensa here, folks.
     
  10. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Your love and defense of Abbott is hard to stomach at this point. He is to blame for this mess.
     
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  11. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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  12. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Deleted
     
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  13. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    I never understand the argument that we have enough ICU units and coffins, so let's party.
     
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  14. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Seriously?

     
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  15. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member

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    Sounds familiar somehow. . . .

     
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  16. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    "The Coronavirus Moralizing Has to Stop":

    https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...esn-t-help-stop-the-coronavirus?sref=htOHjx5Y

    The Coronavirus Moralizing Has to Stop
    Reckless impatience about what to do is what led to bad government policies in the first place.
    By
    Tyler Cowen
    August 6, 2020, 6:30 AM EDT

    In some cases, it is already possible to make moral judgments about the various government responses to Covid-19. Such as: The U.S. squandered months of preparation time in early 2020, and President Donald Trump’s administration used and promoted abysmal risk communication strategies. China should have been more transparent about the virus early on. The Brazilian leadership has behaved especially irresponsibly.

    Nonetheless, the genre of “coronavirus moralizing” is suspect. All things considered, it might be better to ignore Covid-19 analyses accompanied by moral judgments of political leaders or systems.

    Start with a relatively non-controversial, non-emotional example for most Americans. At first, Kosovo seemed to be doing a decent job against Covid-19, with relatively few cases and deaths. Now the death count is spiking vertically. Was the initial success because of policy, luck, relative isolation or some other factor? Are the current problems due to some particular policy blunder, or is time simply catching up with Kosovo? It is too early to draw firm conclusions or moral lessons.

    Or consider Japan. For months it had relatively modest Covid-19 problems, and its leadership pointed to its culture of mask-wearing and strategy of tracing cases to identify larger clusters. Now Japan is experiencing a second wave that is far worse than its first.

    Again, it is not obvious what to think of the Japanese approach, which initially appeared quite reckless. It may in fact turn out to have been reckless, or alternatively Japan may benefit from a kind of “double luck”: It was fortunate that the first wave was relatively benign, and then lucky again that better treatments had arrived in time for the second wave. But those are hypotheses. A clear sense of the quality of Japanese policy may not emerge for another year or two.

    There are increasing numbers of countries being hit by a second wave. Spain had a very rough first wave, then cases fell very low, and now they are rising again and exceed 2,700 per day. An elevated death rate is likely to follow. Yet again, it’s hard to say whether these second waves were largely inevitable or the result of policy mistakes. Or maybe they were the result of mistakes — but no nation, except perhaps for some of the smaller island countries, can attain the level of required policy perfection. Even the technocrats of Singapore could not prevent a large number of cases in the worker dormitories there.

    Another question is how much citizens who have shown discipline can maintain it. Forty people on a Norwegian cruise ship have tested positive, with more cases expected — and this is a report from this week, not last winter. It just goes to show that people are eager to resume some version of their previous lives, and are taking more risks.

    Then there is the Swedish experiment, which has been the subject of a raging controversy. Here again, most moralizing is premature, even though the Swedes did make some clear mistakes, such as not protecting their nursing homes well enough. Sweden had a high level of early deaths, but both cases and deaths have since fallen to a very low level, even though Sweden never locked down. In the meantime, the Swedish economy has been among the least badly hit in Europe.

    If the rest of Europe is badly hit by a second or third wave, and Sweden is not, Swedish policy suddenly will look much better. Alternatively, if Sweden experiences a second wave of infections as big as or bigger than those of its neighbors, it will look far worse.

    One of the most extreme cases is Russia, which is proceeding with a vaccination for its citizens in October. The vaccine may not be safe or effective, and Western experts are condemning the approach.

    Personally, I would not take the vaccine, nor do I favor its approval for use in the U.S., given the risks involved and the potential loss of public confidence. Still, I recognize that the judgments of history are made in hindsight, and that there is a chance this works out for the better. So even though I think the Russians should be more cautious, I am not quite ready to condemn them outright.

    In the U.S., the most deaths by far have come in New York State and surrounding areas, which are mostly controlled by Democrats. But it doesn’t necessarily follow that Democratic rule is to blame, just as one shouldn’t accept Paul Krugman’s repeated insistence that Republican states are handling the crisis much worse.

    The temptation to moralize is one of the strongest human propensities. When we feel it, however, we should recognize that it stems from the same kind of reckless impatience that worsened our response to Covid-19 in the first place.

    This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of the editorial board or Bloomberg LP and its owners.

    To contact the author of this story:
    Tyler Cowen at tcowen2@bloomberg.net

     
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  18. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    Hmmm, eluding the big question seems to be your mantra. What is it you love about Trump?

    Is it his commuting Roger Stone? His love for Putin? His wishing her well to Maxwell? That he hired his daughter crush Ivanka to work side by side with him? That he put her husband in charge of things he wasn't best qualified for? That he scoffs off the Russian bounty claims as not important enough to address? That he is a great lover of golf and knows he can make money housing them all at his resorts every weekend? That he calls the US pandemic a China virus? That he put a big money donors in charge of dismantling the post office? That he votes by mail but is hell bent against it?

    Or do you just find it amusing to see him distort truth to rally up his following into believing all the chaos, protests, Coronavirus deaths, violence, unemployment, losses of healthcare and benefits, and kids abused and caged up like animals are all because of Obama and Biden?
     
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  19. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Contributing Member

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    Deb, I'd encourage you to use fact, logic and reason as opposed to emotions and parroting back what the liberal media feeds you. You live in an echo chamber and are distanced from reality. Your post above is emotion driven. I'd recommend you take a break to gather yourself. You're clearly flailing out of frustration.
     
  20. deb4rockets

    deb4rockets Contributing Member
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    LOL, you must be really blind to all Trump does. Again, what do you love about him to see him this way?
     
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