Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez: The Future of the Democratic Party... enjoy

I think what would end up happening is that they'd try those ideas and they'd probably fail and when they did fail, the government would just take over and you'd eventually end up with the same central planning system that all other socialist systems end up with.....and before long the people would be starving just like in every socialist system that has ever been tried.

Now I disagree with social democrats because I don't think the system could handle the stress they propose to put it under, but at least it is a capitalist system. Truly advocating for a legit socialist system is just unacceptable. I get that those who do so are merely naive and they don't understand that their ideas would cause the death of thousands or even millions, but that doesn't make it any better IMO. They SHOULD know better by now.

 

Don't let the Bobbies of the world and most of the mainstream press conflate Stalinism with democratic socialism for you. Can we agree to start with Norway/Scandinavia ? where we have had democratic socialists in power at times and at least a half century of good results for the many, not just the few.. Then democratically we can decide how much more socialistic we need to be to protect the populace from predatory capitalists. Granted the future is never clear and wjhen basically contented it is easier as taught to say "trust the market to know how to get from here to there". I would argue that almost 40years of making the US less socialistic has created a mess for most.

 

No one conflates the two, they are 2 different types of socialism....there are absolutely cosmetic differences but the goal of all socialism is for capitalism to be overthrown and for "the people" to own the means of production which means no private business ownership. It's you who is conflating the capitalist "Nordic Model" with socialism simply because there has literally never been a successful socialist system to point to so the only way you can go to bat for socialism is by pointing to a capitalist system as an example of the success of socialism.

 

ok I'm not going to bash the left or the right.. but you're rooting for her because she's "refreshing"?? Is that a code for young and hot?

 

Nope, he's a fringe left radical, so he finds it refreshing to find a politician with as ridiculous of political beliefs as he has. He finds it "refreshing" to see outright socialists having success in elections.

 

I prefer pragmatic incrementalism. I do think focusing on supply side issues over demand side has been the US’s undoing.

 

Lol. As opposed to the outright dishonest nationalist?

Some folks are weak and are swayed by overweight men waving tiny Americsn flags.

 

Didn't make the best grades in history, I suspect.

If a socialist system is tried like in Scandinavia and is successful, then we rename it to something else since it does not fit our pre-defined, unchanging narrative.

 

Label is for Lazy

https://www.justicedemocrats.com/issues/

https://www.ocasio2018.com/issues





Which of these are socialist? I'm not really asking, just giving example of existing US programs that some do consider as socialist and some do not ---> Label is Lazy.

- Free k-12 education for all
- Welfare programs (Food stamp, SSI, CHIP, Low income home energy assistance, Medicaid, Earned income credit, Housing assistance, TANF, ....)
- Pell Grants
- Head Start
- Interstate system
- Public parks
- Fire dept
- Police
- ...

 

medicare for all
housing as a human right
right to a job are her first "issues"

Right under that is how she plans on taking away my ability to defend myself with her police force and limit my speech

 

Are you talking about your constitutional right to own a military assault weapon? even if you become bat **** crazy?

As you contemplate replying and telling me how it really is, ...

Is owning a assault weapon a constitutional right?

Is this a majority opinion of the US electorate?

Does the USSC agree with your legal opinion?

Just curious.

 

What's lazy is glossing over the fact that she's an admitted socialist....so it's not just a "label" and the fact that both her and the organization she's proudly a member of view capitalism as the cause of effectively all of life's problems and they wish to ultimately end the capitalist system and replace it with a socialist system.

There's a massive difference between supporting capitalism funded social programs (similar to what the US does and even what they do in the capitalist Nordic Model) and supporting the end of the capitalist system and implementation of a socialist system. Sane people only argue within the context of a capitalist system, batshit insane/childishly naive people go outside of that and argue for a system that has resulted in the death of more people in the 20th century than all of the wars during that century, the most deadly century when it comes to warfare in the whole of human history, combined.

 

Strictly controlling weapons and speech are 2 of the most important things when you are instituting any authoritarian regime....and socialism is inherently authoritarian.

 

lulz

 

What's even more lazy is that you do not know what socialism is?

 

Really.

Cortez want two things wrt "gun rights"
1. assault weapons ban
2. gun control, which back ground checks is the first step thereof

Which of these things has got your panties in a wad?

 

I'm opposed to both. limiting my speech on gun rights is the more important issue.

 

Not what she said.

She didn't mention it because she's an advocate for socialism.

You are an advocate for capitalism but I don't see you talking about how it always fails to protect basic rights of people like education and health.

Social Democrats are socialists.

I'm not sure how many times we have to go over this for you to get it or how many definitions I have to throw at you or how many actual social democrats that tell you they are socialists for you to get this basic fact.

You seem to not understand that socialism, like capitalism, is not black and white. There are levels to it, ranges to it.

By the way it is Sweden and not Sweeden...

Sweden is a social democratic nation with policies that you call socialist here, don't try to pass them off as some super capitalist country now. The fact that Ocasio and Bernie want the SAME policies...the absolutely same policies here and you call them socialists is just evidence of that.

The DSA is a big tent organization.

This is 100% false.

 

This is what annoys me.

Her policies are right there...RIGHT THERE...

Argue her policies, they are right there, it is lazy to just call her a socialist and be done with her because while you do that people are working 2 jobs and going broke because they couldn't afford to pay their medical bills...and when they hear "Free Healthcare" they don't hear or care about socialism. This is exactly why she won her primary.

It's the mirror of what Trump did.

We called him fascist and racists but he ignored and said "I'm going to build a wall and kick them out." that's what people hear, the policies, the idea of it.

It's whatever, these progressives are going to continue to gather momentum until the issue of healthcare is dealt with and after that Education. If capitalism cannot fix these two systems then people will vote to change it...which is...funnily enough, exactly what democratic socialism is.

 

Well I'm glad we could finally agree here, she is an advocate for socialism, the ideology that killed more people in the 20th century than all of the wars in that century combined and has brought starvation everywhere it has been tried while I am an advocate for capitalism, the system that has cut world poverty in half in the last 30 years and has improved the living conditions of countless millions.

....and for whatever reason, you support her.

No they are not. Social Democrats are capitalists that wish to use their capitalist system to fund social programs. They are absolutely not socialists.

Oh there's plenty of morons like Bernie Sanders who will claim to be a socialist when he's really a capitalist. The fact that those people don't know what the hell they are talking about doesn't make your point.....it just shows how stupid some people are.

Yes, they are a social democratic country.....which means that they are a capitalist country. Some people would call their policies "socialist" but they aren't truly "socialist", they are just social programs funded by capitalism.....which is different from what Democratic Socialists like Ocasio-Cortez wants, she wants to replace capitalism with socialism....so it's not at all the same. Hopefully you can follow that.

LOL sure it is, just like the KKK is a "big tent organization" and being a member doesn't mean you are racist, right? You are seriously going out of your way to defend someone who is openly a socialist by somehow suggesting that she isn't a socialist.

Then you simply don't know what the **** you are talking about. Perhaps you don't know the definition of words and you wrongly think that socialism means something that isn't socialism, but that's not my fault.

Here's some basic definitions of the word socialism to educate you.

"a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."

"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and workers' self-management of the means of production"

"any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods"

It's ridiculous that in a board that is tilted this far to the left that I would have to educate people as to the basic definitions that go with far left ideologies.