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[ESPN] MLB suspends spring training, delays Opening Day at least two weeks

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by RKREBORN, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. conquistador#11

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    Can I present to you guys the :' Trickle down bases loaded stimulus package'. MLB Owners would get the average of what they generate in a regular year's revenue, 330 million per team, so the package is for 9.9 billion. It's a basic small loan. Here is the best part you will pay for it and you can say you helped save baseball.

    only teams I like will be rewarded with my stimulus package. Yankees, Dodgers fetch your own cash! Boohoo.
     
  2. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Carlos said he was ready to play, but wanted to see the numbers first. lol

    [​IMG]
     
    conquistador#11 likes this.
  3. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Owners should pay minor leaguers minimum wage. MLBPA should not sell out minor leaguers, drafted players, and pre-arb players in the CBA to protect veteran players.
    The owners will likely not choose to lose more money to play games or to just break even as they are taking a lot of risk while the players pocket 2 billion dollars. Considering player salaries are close to that of TV money, other than the yankees, dodgers, and maybe a couple other big market teams, playing games without fans will be a bigger loss than not playing games. MLB teams have a lot of expenses and for the most part are focused on paying those instead of maximizing future profits.

    Owners can afford to wait it out. Though, scouts/minor leaguers/other staff should get paid before bowing down to veteran players if the owners decide to be charitable. This is the real problem with getting benevolent owners...Charitable rich guys tend to use their charitable contributions to help poor people instead of buying teams to pay players millions to win baseball games.

    This won't happen. People are not going to buy teams to lose money. Owners for the most part are owners to make money. One or four may decide they are willing to lose money, but will never get a majority of owners that don't put not making money first just as some players may take discounts to play where they want, the vast majority follow the money.

    The two biggest problems in baseball in my opinion is that revenue is vastly different between teams, and players aren't paid comparable to what they produce, relatively. As long as revenues as so vastly different between teams and there isn't a salary cap, some players are going to get the shaft.
     
    #383 Joe Joe, May 27, 2020
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  4. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    In a year where everybody stands to lose... the owners unfortunately have to bear the brunt of it, given their increased wealth and increased ability to withstand losses.

    I agree... if they stand to lose less by not playing, vs. playing in front of empty stands, not sure why they're even going through the charade. Although I don't think they stand to lose that much less after TV money gets paid out and with the possibility of even limited fans later in the year as things possibly improve.

    However, them being nickel/dimey with minor league staff/players is not a great precedent.

    Wealth inequality is a problem... hence why there should be minimum standards on who should be allowed to own a sports team. Banks don't just give anybody a loan... leagues shouldn't just allow a sale to just anybody who's a fan who happens to have the amount of money at that moment that they need (regardless of how leveraged they were to get it).
     
  5. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    The charade is only if players decide they would rather stay home than collectively make a lot of money. The TV money prorated is around $2.3 billion. Maybe revenues would increase to 3-3.5 billion if the owners can get a little more for expanded playoffs/a bump in merchandising sales versus no games and there are no missed games. That's a lot of money to be made by someone. The players' position is that they want about $2.3 billion of that. Maybe the owners could break even as a whole (assuming playoffs are played), but I expect the big market teams make money and the small market teams lose a lot if the league as whole breaks even.

    If the owners agree to paying the players prorated portions of their salaries, there will be even more teams firing scouts and not paying minor leaguers.


    I would be for an agreement that pooled money that players have their salaries reduced by go to coaches/scouts/minor leaguers/front office staff making less than $100K. No player with less than 4 years of service time should get docked in pay.

    Edit: The owners need the playoffs. That is why players strike at the end of seasons. There is no guarantee playoffs happen.
     
    #385 Joe Joe, May 27, 2020
    Last edited: May 27, 2020
  6. jim1961

    jim1961 Member

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  7. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Sounds like you're all in on the owners and ensuring their net worth's are kept consistent... too bad none of them know how to hit a curve ball.

    In the end, they should just put together exhibitions of HR derbies, pitch-accuracy contests, or trial electronic strike zone simulations... sell the package to networks, take a cut of the ad money, give some to Covid relief efforts, millions upon millions tune in to watch (because why not)... and soon they'll end up funding the difference in what they're squabbling about.

    Leagues have to become inventive/creative at this time. This years' champions will not mean much. Playoffs not going to have the same feel at all. There are other avenues they can explore to enhance revenue.
     
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  8. PhiSlammaJamma

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    I'm nervous, but it's because there is a giant Kookaburra rolling down the highway in Katy.

    [​IMG]
     
    Nook and Hank McDowell like this.
  9. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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  10. conquistador#11

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    Is 110 games possible at this point?
    Host the playoffs in "neutral" indoor stadiums?
    Astros vs Yankees at "neutral" Rogers Centre in Toronto. Jeter throwing opening pitch.
    Still not over the "Neutral" incident from 2008 even if the fans are cardboard!
     
  11. Rock Block

    Rock Block Sorta here sometimes
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    Its looking more and more like it aint happening folks. The players are steadfast on sticking it to the owners and I guess so be it. More important things then mills and bills fighting over the season and money. Should be interesting CBA in 2021.

    Probably tamps down the vitriol towards us a bit. I mean we miss an entire season due to a pandemic, the 2021 CBA and it's likely the media/fans will be hammering the players and owners over dumping the season. It'll never go away for us but these are huge diversions from it in the immediate aftermath that's for sure.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  12. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I think this is more the owners sticking it to the players once they realized what their true losses could be. The "agreements" changed. Its not easy to change hard parameters of a CBA mid-stride, and there's no precedence for any of this nor do the players want to cave and set a new standard for future negotiations.

    Lets see if the owners consider a version of the players' proposal or work towards a negotiation.
     
    RayRay10 likes this.
  13. Astrofan59

    Astrofan59 Member

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    I think it is funny that you chided someone for being "all in for the owners".
     
    The Beard likes this.
  14. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    Jeff Passhole can suck it
     
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  15. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Nope. I just don't believe in owner baseball faeries that support baseball for the sake of baseball even if it means losing money. I tend to believe owners accumulated a lot of wealth because they like money, and that their motivations are that their net worth is consistent or increasing. What I would like is the owners to direct their worth to people who need it...which does not include players that made over $1M last year. Players bickering over whether they get $1.5B or $2.5B will cost the jobs of scouts, minor leaguers, and other personnel. Assuming the owners aren't baseball faeries, they aren't going to pay players $2.5B while they lose money on the deal or make a small (relative to $2.5B) profits*.

    My selfish motivations are for baseball to be played. For the most part, I expect there will be either no season because the MLBPA doesn't understand the owners want money (unheard of, right?) or there is an agreement around 57-60% "baseball revenues" that playing a season would generate go to players. Considering players have received between 50-57% of "baseball revenues" for a decade or 2 (Per Passan last year [maybe 2018] and he said MLBPA did not disagree), I don't see an offer of 50% of baseball revenues horrific as portrayed by you and the media. If the players didn't want to negotiate in case fans couldn't attend games, they should not have signed the March Agreement that required a further agreement in case fans could not attend games (though, I tend to give credit for owners having better lawyers).

    *Lose money is relative to what would happen with 82-game season with no fans in stands versus no season.
     
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  16. sealclubber1016

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    That's the main issue I'm seeing, there's just no incentive for the owners to play a season at their own expense. If the player salary per game is more than their own income (a likely scenario) they will be playing at a loss..which isn't gonna happen. I see people suggesting the players are right because they don't get extra profit when business is up, so we shouldn't give them money when business is down, but that's not the way it works. If simply keeping the doors shut is the better financial option, that's what they will do.

    Ultimately I think cooler heads will prevail when they realize how financially catastrophic no baseball in 2020 and then a stoppage in 2022 will be for all parties involved, but it won't be smooth.
     
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  17. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    2022? CBA ends after 2021 season. If players are going to strike, they need to do it before the 2021 playoffs..say July or August next year. If there is no World Series in 2020...it might be until 2022 until a World Series is played.
     
  18. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    Owners who don’t have enough money to operate, but still want to run their business, get loans... or raise capital... or look at private equity options. They find a way to keep vital employees loyal and productive.

    They are tied to pay out these contracts... and they can’t jettison the players like they are other staff members or minor leaguers.

    I don’t dig my heels in and support owners in any of this. I don’t wear owners jerseys. The players have fairly iron-clad agreements in place... the owners could open the books further to prove their true plight, but they’re not... which is very suspicious.

    I doubt the owners continue to dig in... they really don’t have that much leverage over the union as a whole.
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    This is exactly it. Paying prorated amounts for games is reasonable if the revenues are pro-rated - but they aren't. TV revenues will be, but there will be no gate revenues. So at that point, it makes no sense for the owners. Players ultimately have to decide if they are willing to sacrifice $1 billion or more to make a statement, or if they are willing to split the burden of lower revenues with the owners. There's no scenario where they come out better losing the billion - they'll never make that money back, so its really about ego/principle/etc. As you said, it makes no sense for owners to play games if the marginal profit is negative. They can just wait until next season and save themselves a whole lot of logistical hassle - in either scenario, the owners would be poorer, and it's going to backfire on the players because they won't be giving out big contracts next year in that case, so players lose out even more in future seasons. It's interesting to see the NBA where everyone is on the same page and working together through a complex mess and compare it to MLB.
     
  20. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    The NBA has already had 80% of its season. Half the teams that don’t make the playoffs, along with half the rosters, aren’t all that concerned financial wise. Even then, salary reductions aren’t really a sticking point because it hasn’t been considered.

    The NFL also has not broached the topic of salary reductions, even when no fans are expected to be in the stands for a good chunk of the season.

    Both those leagues’ owners have readily admitted they’re expecting to make significantly less money this year. Baseball owners are not unique in any of the economic effects of the pandemic.
     

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