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The Fatherhood Thread

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Fantasma Negro, Mar 30, 2020.

  1. Fantasma Negro

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  2. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Sigh, great one, Fantasma.
     
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  3. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    Powerful. Mama's boys will naturally reject it though.
     
  4. Two Sandwiches

    Two Sandwiches Contributing Member

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    I'll watch this tomorrow. Not sure what to expect.


    I absolutely love being a father. My 2 year old is hilarious, frustrating, and awesome. He's my best friend.
     
  5. SemisolidSnake

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    I watched this the day you posted it, but my comment got eaten, and I haven't gotten back to rewriting it until now

    Very important video to watch. For everyone. Her style of presentation doesn't feel as natural as some, but I attribute that to her being a lawyer and kind of speaking like a lawyer when giving the speech. However, her knowledge and bona fides on the subject matter seem beyond reproach.

    The part where she laid out which questions women are good at answering about their kids (the typical ones asked in family court) vs. which questions men are good at answering about their kids was quite enlightening.

    The part where she asked people to envision their fathers growing up hit me pretty hard. Her intention was to eventually point out that 40% of children don't even get a father to experience. But I had a dad growing up, yet it still didn't feel like I didn't. I felt like I had a coach and a boss. I really did. And my sister and I having to listen from upstairs to his angry tirades and throwing things when we were kids has made us fear him for life.

    I worked with him for 12.5 years as the right hand man in his business. I just left 6 weeks ago right before the whole Covid thing ramped up. I didn't get any closer to him in a father/son relationship, but the whole experience really screwed me up. His business really has always been his most beloved child based on his actions.

    You can be a father that's not there for your kids despite being physically there. My parents have been married for 50 years. They've had me for 36 of those years. I'm not sure I ever had a real father. Don't be that kind of dad. Throw away the cold, distant behaviors of the previous generations and love your kids and family above all else.
     
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  6. boomboom

    boomboom I GOT '99 PROBLEMS
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    Deep stuff SS. Good stuff SS.
     
  7. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    People who feel distant from their fathers typically feel close to their mothers. Not saying someone can't be close to both. But there will always be one you're closer to. As a result, if your father sensed that you identified more with your mother or knew you did, that could explain the distance between y'all.

    Of course it wouldn't bring y'all closer. That's business. Honesty is the only thing that will bring y'all closer. To get closer to him, you talk to him about how he made you feel growing up. How distant you feel to him. You forgive him for making you feel the way you feel and screwing you up. You also apologize for judging him based on things he did that he probably couldn't truly control anyway (his anger/emotions). He's probably as screwed up as you are if you actually took the time to talk in this way to him.

    NEVER. If there's one thing I now know for certain since I have become a father is that I love my children more than anyone and more than I love myself. From speaking to other fathers in many different situations, in terms of their "distance" to their children, I also know for certain that every father loves their children. From the most "deadbeat" of fathers to the father of the year types, they all love their children the same. Believe it or not.

    As far as his dedication to his business, that's how he expressed his love to his family, believe it or not. Many fathers fall into the trap of wanting to provide financially more and more and have more and more security for their family over spending time with them. Every father has his reasons. As children and spouses, we have to accept his love whether it's through time or, as in your father's case, treasure.

    Your mother probably feels as you do. Distant from her husband. If true, you do identify with her more and hold the same things against him as she did. I bet he sensed that.

    Everyone has a real father. You don't get to judge fathers based on what you feel is a real dad. I thought your father was the angry type? At any rate, fathers are not supposed to be warm and emotional, they're supposed to be calm and logical among other things to go along with loving their family.
     
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  8. SemisolidSnake

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    I sincerely do appreciate the thought you put into your response. I'll have to address the bulk of it at another time, and it may not be pretty for you as a loving father to read, but I do appreciate and respect it.

    Right now, I just want to tackle the part I've cherrypicked for anyone and everyone reading this:

    If you want my simple advice, no caveats, DO. NOT. WORK. IN. A. FAMILY. BUSINESS. Period. Full stop.

    It's a chain around your own life. I do not think it's psychologically possible to treat it just as business. I may not even be able to elucidate every reason perfectly why that is, but the sheer fact that it's a family-connected entity WILL factor into your thought processes, conscious or subconscious. And that will skew you in most likely bad directions mentally, emotionally, maybe physically, and maybe financially. If your dad/mom/grandparent/uncle/whatever is your boss, it's even worse.

    It's just not possible to be objective, and BUSINESS. NEEDS. OBJECTIVITY. Not everywhere, but in more places than you think it does even if you think you've got it all worked out. You'll either let things slide because you care about your family member. Things that you would never consider in an agnostic, structured, systematized environment. Things you wouldn't be allowed to let slide even if no bad to the business can come from it. And it'll get easier over time to make bigger leaps and concessions. The chain around your own life choices will tighten.

    Or you'll experience resentment beyond what you would normally experience because of that connection. Maybe it's personal and has to do with feeling like you always get ignored, and it's been that way since you were a kid. Maybe it's knowing the financial strain that decisions you disagree with in the company directly or indirectly put on your family that you care about. That's a big one for me. Or maybe you make a mistake and you connect your own failure back to the health of your family. You think you can build a wall, but it's harder than you think. Way harder. Another chain. These chains get hard to break. Took me over 12 years and cost me just about everything except my life, and that was a hard thing to hold on to sometimes during all this. I'm a much weaker as a person than I was when I started with some serious traumatic stress disorder to deal with.

    Oh, but, it's just me, right? I'm using one person's anecdotal experience. Go ask your friends or anybody that will be honest with you about how they feel working in their family business. I ask people before I tell them that I also work in one. I have never met a person that doesn't have at least some of this baggage. Even the one person I know that actually likes working with their dad. Only one out of many.

    Also, mini rant. I hate the phrase "family-owned since <insert year>" and especially its warm, fuzzy societal association with a business being more trustworthy than another. a) That's a lie you tell yourself. A business works because it works and has shown that it can keep working. Family-owned doesn't mean anything. And knowing that every family will these extra conflicts, I'm actually kind of wary of that term. b) It's a fallacy. Whoever STARTED the business HAD to break away from something, quite possibly their family business depending on the era, to start it. So the very founder of whatever business it is didn't believe in "family-owned since" meaning a hill of beans. They did their own thing in life.

    At the very least, even if you REALLY think you do want to work in your family business, I would highly suggest NOT doing so for a couple years. Especially out of high school or college. Go work somewhere where you're NOT connected. Bring in someone else's money. Observe how a business runs that doesn't rely on the goodness of family to get its functions taken care of. See things with completely clear lenses. If after that time, you still want to go try to out the family thing, take that agnostic, objective attitude with you. Demand you get paid at the same time as everyone else. Work the same hours as everyone else. Demand extra compensation for additional work you do outside your scope. In fact, most importantly, MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR JOB IS.

    I worked for 12 years out of college, after being sort of sneakily enticed into the business, NEVER knowing what my job was. And that meant I took on EVERY job, because I had no job description. I'm a degreed chemical engineer, and that's probably not even in the top five of things I spent my time on. I developed both incredible resentment AND an incredibly intertwined and sacrificial nature from all this. I wasn't ready for this sort of thing coming right out of the chaos of college. And probably nobody is.

    TL;DR: If you want a good relationship with your dad (or any relative), DON'T WORK WITH/FOR (or as I put it "AGAINST") HIM. And if you really still want to do that, DON'T treat him like a father in any respect when it comes to the business. And be willing to walk away based on thresholds and standards that would be the same at any other company. And don't do it until you've worked somewhere else and know what those thresholds are.
     
  9. Fantasma Negro

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    Bro this is completely uncool. This man shared his life experience and you had no right to critique it. Maybe you're going through something with your dad or are having some feelings as a dad but that doesn't give you the right to minimize another man's experience. And he does get to judge what he feels a real dad is, that's how he'll figure out the type of dad he wants to be. I'm nothing like my dad was with me with my kids and through watching me with my kids my father has become a better dad and a spectacular grandfather
     
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  10. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I was lucky with my parents. I've shared enough about them elsewhere around here and don't feel like repeating it. However, I totally sympathize with those who didn't have my experience. I'm still close friends with a handful of people I grew up with, who didn't have the situation I had. They didn't have it easy. No, not at all. Some of them ended up working for "the family business." They didn't have it easy, either. I was also lucky enough to have spent a hell of a lot of time with our kids while they were growing up. I wouldn't trade that for anything, although some of the cartoons drove me crazy.
     
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  11. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    I feel where you're coming from. My parents were old school and my father especially was never really into the whole showing kids affection thing. It's just their generation and the way they were raised. Now my mother was extremely loving and always there and it's who we went to if we had a problem on a personal level. My father is who we'd go to for financial help or advise.

    Over time I was able to bond with him after he retired and had more time on his hands. I enjoyed being able to sit back, drink a beer with him, talk about life, bbqing together...it'll all work out in the end brother.
     
  12. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    The relationships you have with your parents are the most important earthly connections anyone will have in their life. The relationship you have with your father is the most important of the two. So I won't mince words when it comes to offering perspectives like the ones I put forth for everyone to read. Everyone who reads them can make their own choice as to whether or not they agree or disagree with it. I know most people will disagree, especially with the tone, but I hope they are open to the spirit of it.

    I have gone through a similar situation with my father. That is why I can speak on it with such certainty. I had to forgive him posthumously as he passed when I was a teenager, but even then, my inner life changed completely and I was able to have a closer relationship with my mother and God. Because of that epiphany (?), I have spoken to many just like that and no one has regretted following that type of advice. Which isn't new advice or my advice by any means, BTW.

    The experiences we all have with our parents are different in the details, but in terms of what matters, they are the same. I hope that is understood. We can all agree and disagree on many things with our fathers, but we should not judge them. That leads us to resentment and away from loving him.

    You happen to describe a relationship with your father that is beautiful. As we grow older we should look to our parents as our peers and, in some cases, like yours, we become their teachers. At times, we could even become like a parent to them. As in your case where you taught your father how to be a better father and grandfather.
     
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  13. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    I look forward to your response. I hope you didn't take my response the wrong way. This subject is a passion of mine and I mean nothing but the best when I speak on it. I know it sounded personal, but it really wasn't meant to be that way. Believe it or not.

    Resentment is the #1 issue of holding anything against anyone. Typically, when someone is able to beat that resentment against their parents, they'll find that they could never resent anyone else.

    Exactly.
     
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  14. Fantasma Negro

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    I agree with you 100%. Thank you for being real about it
     
  15. Exiled

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  16. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    This video is so old that kid is probably 20 by now...
     
  17. Fantasma Negro

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  18. DFWRocket

    DFWRocket Member

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    I take my role as a father very seriously. My dad lived in Austin growing up so I didn't see him but maybe 3-4 times a year and when I did, he wasn't usually interested in anything I did. He was more interested in partying with his friends. He made 1 soccer game in 9 seasons of playing, and it was kind of embarrassing trying to teach yourself how to throw a baseball as an adult. So, I strive to be the dad I never had.

    It's important to spend time with your kids - especially make sure to get some time with the kids without your wife.
     
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  19. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    I've shared the story here before, but my dad's father was absent. He was a career bank robber and spent a ton of time in prison. When he tried to reach out to my dad, he was shut down by my dad's mom and her family. Which is understandable given the influences in my grandfather's life. I never met my grandfather. He died in a police chase that culminated in a shootout on the streets of LA in 1977. My dad only met him a few times in his entire life.

    My dad decided at 14 that he was going to be the dad he never had. And he was big time. He was there for me all the time, and he was affectionate and loving. He cut off what had been generations of absent fathers and said, "no more." What an amazing decision, and how different my life would have been had he not done so. Incredible. He's still alive and 83 years old. We talk nearly every day, and neither one of us hangs up without saying, "I love you." My role as dad to my sons is my favorite, and I'm so fortunate to have had that example. My kids have benefited from that decision my dad made when he was just 14.

    I thought of all this when I read the part of your post where you said you strive to be the dad you never had...because that's exactly what my dad did. So let me thank you on behalf of your kids, their kids, and the rest of the world for making that decision. That's so freaking awesome. You can't begin to overstate the importance of it as it plays out generations from now.
     
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  20. Surfguy

    Surfguy Contributing Member

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    My Dad’s Dad fought in WWII and was a POW in the Philippines doing the infamous Bataan Death March. He was a prisoner for over 4 years. As a result, my Dad didn’t have a father around during his early childhood. Even when he returned from the war, they never really had that father-son relationship.I think that, when Dad grew up and had his own children, he also made a commitment to be the type of father he never had. He was always there for me after work to play a game of basketball or catch. He attended many of my sports games as well. And, he was there financially as well. The only thing is he was a nagger a lot of the time but small price to pay. I have many wonderful memories from growing up.
     
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