[ESPN Podcast/Windhorst] Downfalls of the Rockets and 76ers

Should we dig up the old threads regarding Ariza’s free agency? Everyone is killing Tilman and acting like we definitely should’ve paid him, but I don’t recall that being the sentiment for very many on here at the time. I remember reading a whole lot of “Ariza is overrated”...”0-12”...”easily replaceable”...”now way is he worth that,” etc

 

I don't think folks expected the owner to refuse to add salary to actually try and bring in another defensive wing.

 

Letting Ariza walk, similar to the Ryan Anderson trade and the Brandon Knight trade, was stupid simply because it was wasting a huge salary that could have lead to future trades to improve the team. Nobody thought Ariza was worth 15 mil, but it would have been a clear trade piece. The Suns used Ariza and a pick to land Kelly Oubre, who is now one of their best players.

It is one of many money-driven moves that were done at the expense of the team.

 

Well, Philly is definitely in a better place than we are.

If they want to rebuild now, they can still get like 20 first rounders for all their assets.

They don't need to though because they're still so young, their main issue is that Ben Simmons is not a good fit with Embiid and they don't have enough 3 point shooting so it clogs up the paint.

Rockets are just old. We can't get younger because we keep trading away our first rounders and if we have a pick, we draft a complete bust (Sam Dekker). If we did get lucky and draft a good player like Montrezl and Covington, we don't value them enough.

Our bench is basically just a bunch of G league level players, you can only get Harden and Russ to elevate them so much before they hit their low ceiling.

 

very many thought otherwise at the time

 

Right? No one thought giving Ariza that much was a good idea at the time.

 

but now everyone and their momma wants to act like they thought it was a definite no brainer back then...if u didn’t have that same energy back in the summer of 2018, then have a seat, I don’t want to hear from u

 

Everyone is squawking that we didn't add enough talent around James.
Flipping CP for WB is a BIG part of our woes right now and everyone can thank James for that.
CP was frustrated and got sideways with James, next thing we know,
CP is gone and is exchanged for James' 'long time friend' Russ.

You can try and hang it on the coach, or hang it on the GM, but plain and simply
James pulled the trigger on this deal and it drastically changed the chemistry and efficiency of this team.
I don't feel too bad for 'wasting' James' prime at this point because he had a lot to do with the makeup of this current team.

 

I'm wasn't at the time, and still am not a fan of the Westbrook trade, even though he's playing extremely well for the most part.

But even if you assume that trade. We still could have had a solid rotation wing presence in Ariza, and we could have flipped all the stuff we wasted on dumping Anderson early and turned it into a great frontcourt option. Not to mention the salary we could have taken on with Westbrook and the TPMLE. There would be no less than 3 major upgrades to our current rotation.

With the way Westbrook is playing, we still would have been the best team in the NBA if that cheap f**cker would have let Morey do his job instead of compiling geezers and scrap heap castaways. None of which was on Harden. If anything Harden is at fault for it's doing too much last season with scrubs, making Tilman think his restaurant approach could work in the NBA.

 

Sure. And that's fine. That was before Tilman had fully revealed himself as a fraudulent owner who cares more about saving money than trying to win. People were still under the impression that, despite that Ariza move, there were other moves to be made that would help improve the team to make up for that loss.

Unfortunately, they were wrong.

 

i remember this dark time

 

There is no way that vastly overpaying for washed up players in hope that you can somehow hit the lottery when you inevitably have to dump them is a sound move, either financially or tactically. Look at Nene.

Hell look at Ariza. Sure, he worked for the Suns. What did the Wizards get for him? Nothing. What did the Kings get for him? An unwanted salary dump in Bazemore.

The Suns lucked into an Oubre rental (who was a restricted free agent last season, he could have been signed to an offer sheet by any team, regardless of Ariza) because the Wizards had a backlog of huge salaries.

The line that people draw from resigning Ariza to a laughable deal (having to somehow create $15mm of room to do so) , then somehow bailing on "run it back" and all the money they committed to Ariza 30 days into the season, then using that panic to land Oubre and Austin Rivers, requires an extraordinary series of coincidences to align in the Rockets favor. It's theoretically possible that this was an outcome. But the most likely outcome is the Rockets commit huge money to yet another over-the-hill veteran and are stuck with it.

It's more fun and more likely to speculate on an Olajuwon-Jordan pairing in Houston, and not as far removed from the events that unfolded.

 

I don't think most people would be railing against the decision to let Ariza walk if he'd been willing to spend on an adequate replacement, instead of cheaping out and pinning hopes on unproven guys like Ennis/House or proven scrubs like MCW.

 

This. 100% this. People want to believe that a re-signed Ariza would have brought back the same team that won 65 games. This didn't include the fact that the best defensive lineups we had that year included Mbah A Moute, a player that was evidently done because he dislocated his shoulder twice in a season. The 65-win team experienced great success because they executed perfectly for pretty much all season until that fateful Game 7. Everything had to break right (signing vet min players that could contribute, the Paul/Harden duo working as well as it did, Capela taking another step in the right direction, etc.).

I said it back then and I'll still stand by it now--signing Ariza to a huge overpaid contract was not the right choice to make. The "B-B-b-but you could have always traded him for Oubre like Phoenix did" crowd makes me laugh because screw hindsight amirite? If you would have told me that the Wizards are going to trade a young and very good 3&D forward in 2018 I would have said "Great! About time Otto Porter gets more spotlight on another team!". Hell, the Wizards ended up trading BOTH Porter and Oubre in the same season. Something I definitely didn't think would have occurred.

 

I think this is also worthy of a quote and a re-quote. Signing Ariza to $15 million a year was irrational back then but not having a contingency plan for his replacement is the cardinal sin. We went through most of the offseason with nothing on the horizon until the name "James Ennis" started popping up because all of the better FAs already signed with another team.

 

Fertita cheapness leads to poor bench
Harden trading cp3 and playing like he's dating klohe
Dantoni not extended and doesn't have bzdelik so he doesn't care

 

it should’ve been known that replacing Ariza would be pretty difficult if he left...we had no cap space, we had limited assets...we also had an alarmingly large number of people that summer who thought that Melo would be an adequate replacement...that Melo should be in the starting lineup and CP3 will get the best out of him

 

How Tilman was able to **** up a 65 win team in such a short amount of time is impressive. Wait, did I say impressive?? I meant it's sickening. Through his pervasive desire to somehow unlock some sort of magical formula where he somehow gets to NOT spend money on building out a roster, but still somehow manages to field a championship level team, he's completely maimed the depth and financial flexibility of this team. The CP3 trade leveled a big blow to our developing depth, but that offseason also brought phenomenal "win-now" moves like Tucker and LMAM. Tilman however has only bargain shopped for scrubs like Thabo, Tyson, and B-Mac, while also forcing us to somehow convert Danuel House from a replacement-level player into a no-name All Star. You then throw into all this the fact that MDA is a lame-duck coach without any long-term plan, Daryl Morey has been cut off at the knees in terms of what he's allowed to do, and James Harden has carte blanche to play whatever style he wants, this team is a flaming mess without any real prospect of change any time soon.

All you can do is hope that Russ somehow figures out how to tap into something deep within this team, and brings out everyone's Alpha come playoff time.

 

Tillman believed he could run the Rockets like his other businesses. He believed he could pay his stars handsomely and cut corners by cutting costs on the rest of the roster and in coaching candidates other basketball related staff.

He let Ariza go over a one year contract. He then expected the front office to replace him for close to the league minimum.

He not only insisted on not using the Anderson contract as as way to circumvent the salary cap to save money... he went as far as to have the front office trade draft picks to save money a year sooner.

He then double downed and didn’t listen to his basketball people and was agreeable to reading 4 #1 picks for Westbrook. Luckily the front office was able to negotiate it down two less; but Tillman still forced the trade.

He then got into a public contract spat with his head coach over a relatively small amount of money. He didn’t want to pay everyone on the coaching staff so some were let go. He then would not pay the going rate for elite defensive coaches.

It has all resulted in a cascading effect.

 

All of what you say is valid, and I agree. I'm not saying it was a no-brainer. I get why they didn't want to match that salary. It was just a wasted opportunity with no backup plan in place. I would have much rather had Ariza at 15 mil and hope that some scenario came about that we could capitalize on, similar to Phoenix, as opposed to just rolling with known non-contributers like James Ennis and Melo and MCW on minimum deals with no avenue to improve that spot because of it.

It's the same as Ryno and Knight. Obviously I don't want those players on those salaries, but they represented opportunities to improve if the opportunity presented itself. Maybe it wouldn't have, sure, but I would have at least rather had the possibility. Instead we just wasted picks to shed those deals for nothing in return, which is, well...not tactically sound, either.