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If Bolton testimony is blocked, our democracy has ended.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Jayzers_100, Jan 27, 2020.

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  1. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    I consider myself to be a fairly reasonable person. I hate terms like "liberal" or "conservative" because they do nothing more than divide us and feed our innate sense of dangerous tribalism. Up to this point, I've felt like the impeachment trial was a futile measure; not too dissimilar from the silly Kavanaugh hearings. This all changes with the latest revelations from Bolton's upcoming book. Per the Times: Bolton writes about an August 2019 meeting he had with Trump, in which Trump said he wanted to keep blocking $391 million in military aid to Ukraine until “officials had turned over all materials they had about the Russia investigation that related to Mr. Biden and supporters of Mrs. Clinton in Ukraine.”

    This goes directly to the heart of the accusations. This is direct, material evidence. It is unfathomable with respect to the Rule of Law that such testimony could possibly be excluded by Senate Republicans. Luckily, Romney and Collins have expressed willingness to hear his testimony. We need at least two more Republicans to do the right thing. If his testimony is denied, it is my humble opinion that the United States democracy that has existed for 243 years is now dead.
     
    #1 Jayzers_100, Jan 27, 2020
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  2. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    Ann Althouse comments at

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2020/01/why-cant-john-boltons-publisher-just.html

    excerpt:

    Trump had the power to release the transcript of the Ukraine phone call, but it's not so easy to release somebody else's book. There's a big commercial interest here, and it seems that Bolton's cashing in on his intimacy with the President is more important that serving the people as we are subjected to this impeachment ordeal. The manuscript is out there, and many people are reading it, but it's the pre-publication review process, and — big surprise — it's leaking. Well, that's to be expected, and now we're reading the leaks as the NYT chooses to present them, presumably in the hope of opening up the Senate trial. And from Bolton's camp, what we hear is crying over corruption of the process — not the Senate trial process, the pre-publication review process.

    If the pre-publication review process is more important than giving us what's in the book while the Senate trial is going on, then I'm guessing what's in the book is nothing we haven't already heard about Trump and Ukraine. And if the White House is the source of the leak — which is the story from the Bolton camp — that's all the more reason to think the book is nothing special.

    According to the NYT article, Trump has had the book since December 30. The book is no surprise to Trump.
    In other words, it wasn't all about Joe Biden. However wrong or disorderly Trump's various thoughts might have been, they were not limited to the one thought that is the thought that the House managers say was his only thought. That's their theory of abuse of power, that he wanted only to get material to use against his political rival.
    ​
    more at the link
     
    #2 Os Trigonum, Jan 27, 2020
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  3. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    well, it has been dying for a while, and many say it became an oligarchic type of deal a while ago, but we could call this an additional organ failure. Would that be enough metaphorical power for you? :D
     
    #3 B-Bob, Jan 27, 2020
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  4. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    Same **** different day my dude. Pubbies have been thumbing their noses at the law, the rules of our government, and the will of the people ever since Obama hung a big fat L on them. The shame train left the station ages ago.
     
    #4 DonnyMost, Jan 27, 2020
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  5. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    That's all fine and dandy, let's hear it form the witness stand.
     
    #5 Jayzers_100, Jan 27, 2020
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  6. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    Trump has now directly tweeted that he never told Bolton that aid to the Ukriane was tied to the Bidens. The defendant in this matter has now essentially testified to a rebuttable presumption that can only be confirmed or denied by Mr. Bolton himself. The level of incompetency in the White House is unreal.
     
    #6 Jayzers_100, Jan 27, 2020
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  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    That argument makes no sense the house managers never said it was his only thought.

    Son I guess Ann thinks if you commit wrongdoing while you are doing good the wrongdoing should just be ignored?

    Boy his enablers are floundering pitifully.
     
    #7 jiggyfly, Jan 27, 2020
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  8. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    The Criminal in Charge is threatening "executive privilege" to block Bolton's testimony, if the Senate allows it.

    Like Trump has told the Congress wrt its subpoenas, Bolton should tell Trump "Make me". Let Trump send in the FBI to arrest Bolton to prevent him form divulging "state secrets".
     
    #8 No Worries, Jan 27, 2020
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  9. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Funny that cornyn jumps to trump's defense, threatening to subpoena the Bidens and Congressman Schiff (surprised he didn't include childish adjectives). Perhaps Democrats should add pompei's, rudy's and trump's names to the subpoena list. If we are going to litigate everything, lets hear everyone.

     
    #9 NewRoxFan, Jan 27, 2020
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  10. Andre0087

    Andre0087 Member

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    It's not dead just corrupt as hell. The rule of law in general is still being held up for us plebs.
     
    #10 Andre0087, Jan 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
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  11. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    It's really up to Bolton and the amount of candy he'll get... They tried that trick before and some testified anyways.

    Oh no that's not shameless or undignified for a career Republican at all.
     
    #11 Invisible Fan, Jan 27, 2020
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I don't know if his testimony is really all that meaningful. He would say, apparently, that Trump tied aid to the investigation. I think that's been amply established anyway. Trump's argument now is that he did do so because he was concerned about corruption. Will Bolton also testify that Trump told him he demanded the investigation so that he could undermine Biden's political candidacy? If he can do that under oath, that would be great. If he can't speak to motive, I don't know if he's really essential.

    As for the death of our democracy. it's slated for when the American people elect Trump again even though they knew or should have known that he was a corrupt piece of ****.
     
    #12 JuanValdez, Jan 27, 2020
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  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Well the defense in the Senate is that he never tied it to the aid. No one who says he did (under oath) spoke directly to him.
     
    #13 justtxyank, Jan 27, 2020
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  14. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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    It boggles the mind how they think Joe or Hunter Biden could offer testimony relevant to the innocence of Donald Trump.

    Republicans are playing the world's dumbest game of chicken with this.
     
    #14 DonnyMost, Jan 27, 2020
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  15. Mr.Scarface

    Mr.Scarface Member

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    They basically think the Dems won't ask for witnesses if the Bidens are the counter. Republicans are wrong.
     
    #15 Mr.Scarface, Jan 27, 2020
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  16. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    So now it’s the Bolton testimony that's the smoking gun? Ok I see. The problem is even if Bolton testifies and Trump is exonerated this will not stop the crazed left there will be a new one on the horizon, it’s a never ending carousel of dumbassery.
     
    #16 mick fry, Jan 27, 2020
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  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Or put a different way, if Trumpers will still support him despite all the other stuff we've already heard, why would you think hearing it from Bolton would make any difference?
     
    #17 JuanValdez, Jan 27, 2020
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  18. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Our empire is collapsing.
     
    #18 larsv8, Jan 27, 2020
  19. mick fry

    mick fry Member

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    Support him for exposing what is the swamp? You can bet they will and his reelection is imminent.
     
    #19 mick fry, Jan 27, 2020
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  20. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    Yeah and I hate to sound one-sided..and I think y'all get the idea...but I fail to see how Hunter or Joe Biden have any relevant testimony to add to this. If the Bidens did every nasty trick in the book behind closed doors, it still would not justify Trump's process of investigating such info.
     
    #20 Jayzers_100, Jan 27, 2020
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