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The future of the EU and the UK, post-Brexit

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. malakas

    malakas Member

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    The Brexit Party had no way to go but down.
    They do not have a political agenda.
    All the other parties even the tiny ones, even the Greens and even the nationalists, have an agenda. What does the Brexit party believes about healthcare, education, the environment etc etc?

    The closer to the elections, even more spotlight will be on post Brexit and non Brexit issues. So unless someone is just a fanatic, or just want to Brexit but hate the Torries they will not vote for them. Their only hope for votes is in the Northern Midlands where there are Brexiters Labour voters- who aren't convinced by Corbyn.
     
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  2. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  3. malakas

    malakas Member

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    Labour has completely fallen apart. Their second in command resigned and there are former Labour MPs publicly asking peope to vote for Johnson.

    Corbyn has completely lost the plot.
    Dont be surprised if the Lib Dems end up with more votes than them..why would a Remainer trust Corbyn anymore?

    Meanwhile the Lib Dems have made a pact with Plaid Cymru and the Greens. It's not much but at least they are doing something.
     
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  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Yeah, Tom Watson picked up a challenge from former Labour MP George Galloway, who is a very popular, charismatic and aggressively pro-Brexit, who is running as an independent. In this constituency, Watson apparently saw the writing on the wall and quit. This appears to be what is the primary driving force behind Watson's resignation.

    To be fair, the Labour "leaders" who are endorsing Boris Johnson are all actually former Labour leaders. None of them is currently in office, as far as I can tell. That being said, you are right about Corbyn.

    Labour supports Remaining in substance, but in form they are trying to position themselves as riding the fence in a way that pretends to accommodate Leaving, but not in a way that would not ever allow leaving to truly occur.

    They are doing this because a substantial number of their MP's are from constituencies that support Leaving and in many cases quite strongly so. It appears to be a strategy that is failing miserably, as the Leaver supporters in the party understand that the Labour party are not actually going to support a true Brexit, and they are not buying it. Meanwhile, the Remainers in the party - the substantial majority - are confused about the level of commitment that Labour has for Brexit alternatives, whether that be a second referendum or out right support of Remain, and many of them are not buying it either.

    The Labour party is in a very bad spot right now. If the polls are anything close to right, Labour is likely to lose big in the upcoming election, with the Tories and the Lib Dems gaining at their expense.

    To be fair, the Conservatives were in an even worse spot this last summer, before Boris Johnson took over, as Theresa May had been trying to work a similarly unclear and vacillating strategy on the Tory side and the party was literally on the verge of ceasing to exist as a result. Of course Johnson came in and went all in behind Brexit in a very clear and strong way, including throwing those MP's who were demonstrably not on board with this clarified party direction out of the party. This series of bold actions over a period of just barely over 90 days even now has reversed the Tory parties political prospects in a truly remarkable fashion.

    Apparently Jeremy Corbyn is not confident that introducing a similarly strong and decisive clarification of the Labour Party's platform would help their prospects. I really do not know what Labour should do at this point, but it is hard to imagine any set of actions that would harm this party more than Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of it has.
     
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  5. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Who is next in line for the monarchy? England needs a good king.
     
  6. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Charles. Then his son William. William would be better.
     
  7. malakas

    malakas Member

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    I agree with most of your post except for this.
    They aren't doing this because of that.
    Extensive polls over the last 3 years have shown that the vast overwhelming majority of Labour voters - their targets- voted Remain.
    By not having a clear pro Remain policy they are instead alienating their core base.

    The reason that Labour has a Brexit policy is because of Corbyn and his cronies not because of some special strategy.
    Corbyn has been a Brexit supporter for decades before the referendum. He had written articles about it and wasn't shy to publicly declare that he wanted Brexit.
    That's why he has had public arguments and disagreements with other prominent members of his party and how many of them have lately decided to quit.
    Corbyn is a man of ideals and principles (his own) and doesn't know compromise even if it leads to alienating his own party.
    A very bad quality for a leader of a major party.

    In the end politics is the art of compromise.
     
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  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    After this election is over and Brexit is done, Labour is going to have to decide what they stand for and build a case for why people should want to vote for them again. They seem to be becoming more and more radical extreme left. Maybe there is a market for that. But I suspect it is not as big as Labour is going to need for it to be. If they cannot work these questions out in a plausible and even compelling manner, the Tories could be running the show in the UK for a very long time.
     
  9. malakas

    malakas Member

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    What do you mean?
    Socialism is not extreme. Maybe for american politics but in europe socialism is mainstream. Every country has a socialist either government or main opposition party, they are considered centrists.

    The issue was antisemistism in Labour and antimuslim in the Tories that were in the spotlight and considered extreme not socialism.

    As for the private schools , that Corbyn wanted to abolish..though a seemingly extreme issue from what I have been reading in the Guardian in the last 5 years there are many underlying issues with british education.
    Schools even elementary ones, are owned more and more by private companies and they have been banning students with bad grades to ensure good averages . They run them as private companies instead of educational institutes. There have been many stories and scandals and at some point, the government has to step in to protect the average citizen and the children.

    I don't know if the Tories will get to run the country for a long time. It will come down to what happens with Brexit.
    There are many many indications that the government is planning on the downlow to privatise the NHS.
    The pride of the brits..and noone will stand for that no matter their party.
     
  10. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The UK under Boris Johnson has continued to refuse to appoint an EU commissioner as of December 1, when the new EU Commission has been scheduled to convene. In order for the commission to function under the EU laws and regulations, each of the 28 countries must appoint a commissioner.

    Dazed EU insists Commission will not be delayed as UK refuses to make nomination

    But on Thursday Commission officials acknowledged they were not quite prepared for the predicament they now find themselves in — with Commission President-elect Ursula von der Leyen and her team hoping to take office on December 1 but the U.K. refusing to put forward a nominee for commissioner, despite having agreed to do so as part of the deal that postponed the Brexit deadline to January 31.

    In any case, officials have said that to begin the new Commission without a U.K. commissioner some action would be required on the EU's part, in order to avoid potential legal challenges to the new Commission's legitimacy. The current practice of having each of the 28 EU members put forward a Commission nominee was established in a legal decision by the European Council, and some officials have suggested that the Council would need to act to change it.

    At Thursday's news conference, Commission officials tried to straddle between insisting that EU lawyers are already on the case, and that the Commission would not be delayed, while also deflecting questions about how long it would take to reach a conclusion, or what legal options might be available. "As soon as we have completed our analysis we are going to announce to you the next steps to take," Spinant said.​

    The EU insisted that the UK was required to appoint a new commissioner as a condition of them granting the current extension. So, what are they going to do? Cancel the extension?

    LOL. Eat it, you EU establishment cretins.
     
  11. dmoneybangbang

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    You sure are showing them....

    Let’s see how long this Brexit incompetence can continue... So much energy being put into not coming up with a plan.... Tick Tock
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Parliament is in recess and the UK MP's are out campaigning for the upcoming December 12 general election. For someone half way around the world who is watching this process with interest, this is definitely the boring part, where the pols are out kissing babies and making speeches to local constituency groups like the ladies auxiliary, veterans club or maybe the fox hunters association and whatnot.

    Anyway, the polls continue to roll in and the two-week rolling poll average at the Guardian shows the following:

    40% - Conservatives
    29% - Labour
    15% - Lib Dems
    07% - Brexit Party
    03% - Greens

    Here were the numbers on October 31, which I posted in this thread at that time:

    37% - Tories
    24% - Labour
    18% - Lib Dems
    11% - Brexit Party
    04% - Greens

    The margin between the Tories and Labour has stayed pretty large and pretty stable.

    What is interesting is how the Tories and Labour are both consolidating support at the expense of the smaller parties. The most interesting change here is the continuing steady decline of the Brexit Party, from 25% back in June down to 7% now, and still apparently trending lower.

    Also, Labour is up 5 points in the average over the last two weeks. That is a real surprise to me that I would love to hear someone from the UK who is knowledgeable about this try to explain. The Lib Dems, clearly and unapologetically supporting Remain, have fallen 3 points, while Labour, with its fence straddling position on Brexit, is climbing rapidly.

    It is starting to look like Jeremy Corbyn may have been smarter than many people thought by continuing to try to ride two horses at the same time, at least in appearance, although clearly not really.
     
  13. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The leader of the Liberal Democrats, Jo Swinson, has all but conceded the race to Boris Johnson and the Tories, with 18 days left until the general election.

    Boris Johnson is 'on course' to win the general election, says Jo Swinson three weeks before polling day

    Boris Johnson is "on course" to win the general election, Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson has said before having to deny that she was "conceding" the win to the Tories.

    Ms Swinson was also again put on the backfoot for voting through cuts in the coalition government, telling the BBC "I am really sorry we did not win more battles" in Whitehall.

    Ms Swinson made the unexpected admission three weeks before the Dec 12 election after polls suggested the publication of manifestos by Labour and the Liberal Democrats had failed to dent the Tories' poll lead.​
     
  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    According to the latest YouGov Seat Prediction Survey, the Tories are poised to win a 68 seat majority in the election on December 12, 2019.

    This same type of poll correctly predicted Theresa May's government would lose their majority in advance ofvthe 2017 general election.

    Boris Johnson on course for 68-seat majority in UK election

    Boris Johnson on course for 68-seat majority in the U.K. general election, according to a major new poll.

    The YouGov seat prediction survey — which accurately predicted that Theresa May would lose her majority in 2017 — said the Tories would win 359 seats (up 42) with Labour dropping to 211 (down 51) if the election were held tomorrow. ​

    Of course the only poll that matters is the one on December 12. But if this projection is anywhere close to right, this will be a decisive victory, not only for the Tories and Boris Johnson, but for the completion of Brexit as well.
     
  15. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    And here is the 14 day moving poll average at the Guardian, two weeks from election day:

    It shows the Tories trending upwards, now to 43%, with Labour also trending upwards, now at 30%.

    Meanwhile, the Lib Dems, who were looking pretty strong back at the beginning of September, are down to 15%, while the Brexit party has fallen to 4%, and appears to be on the verge of vanishing altogether.

    The Greens, who were the surprise performers in the May EU Parliamentary elections, are down to 3% and it does not look like they will be a factor in these elections.
     
  16. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  17. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    mojmein soliloquy combo-breaker...
    [​IMG]
     
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  19. Rashmon

    Rashmon Contributing Member

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    "Only if you take Eric..."
     
  20. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    The election is on Thursday.

    Once more into the breech.....



    This is for all the marbles.
     

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