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Be honest this **** is not gonna work

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by realonemo, Dec 4, 2019.

  1. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    yup...suspect coaching and aging/flawed co-stars...the pattern has gotta end eventually
     
  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    McHale was bad.

    Howard, Paul and Westbrook were past their prime.

    The Rockets were a hamstring injury from winning a title a couple years ago.

    The Rockets failure to win a title hasn’t been because of Harden. He is the only reason we do not win 25 games a year.
     
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  3. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    it amazes me how people could actually think that Harden is the problem

    with Harden we can actually talk about possibly winning a title even if the chanes are low...people are mad if we lose in the 2nd round

    before Harden we were just hoping to get the 8th seed and not get embarrassed in the playoffs

    we might as well be the Charlotte Hornets or Orlando Magic of the WC without Harden...that’s how irrelevant we’d be
     
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  4. BackNthDay

    BackNthDay Member

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    We need Gordon and House on the floor to take shots away from Westbrick. Dude has zero confidence in his jump shot, didn't expect that from someone at his level. However, his shots will go down in the 4th qtr with House and Gordon on the floor.
     
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  5. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    LONG REPLY BELOW WARNING!!!!

    My problem with these types of takes... which are ubiquitous on reddit, on NBATV, in the media, on NBA Radio, etc., is it ignores some obvious things.

    * It DOES work. The Rockets have been a top 5 team bar none since Harden's arrival, and they've gotten better since they've gone to the ISO heavy style.

    * At the ULTIMATE level, there is NO parity in the NBA. The WC has been represented by the GSW the past 5 years. For the last TWENTY-ONE (21!) seasons, the WC has been represented by either the GSW, SAS, LAL, Mavericks or Thunder one year. That's 5 teams that have made the Finals out of the West in the last 21 years. BTW, Harden was on one of those teams. The East is a little better over the same stretch, but of course over the last 9 years it's been only 2 teams, and obviously it's been basically Lebron 8 of 9 years.

    * If we are talking about Finals appearances and rings... it might not work, but the reason it won't work won't be because of style, and CERTAINLY not offensive style.

    In short, it's EXTREMELY hard to make the Finals in the NBA, and if a team gets a dynastic squad together, which happens pretty much ALL THE TIME, dethroning that team is ridiculously tough. And the reason for that in EXTREME cases can be because of the greatness of 1 individual (Lebron), but more often than not, the greatness of multiple players and depth of talent as a team overall. And FINALLY, because universally, you have to be good both on offense and defense, and the Rockets, under James Harden, often fall short in the defensive area.

    The Rockets could run the exact same offensive system, just change out Russ for Pascal Siakim, and add Serge Ibaka, and guess what?!?!?! The team is an odds on favorite to win a title at this point, no question. Size, length, defense, shooting and a top tier MVP caliber young wing that is a better compliment for Harden.

    It has almost NOTHING to do with the offensive system.

    I am on record as being a "Harden won't get there" guy. People call that hate. It's not hate. I'm not entertained by the system, but the mathematically beauty of it has me in awe of sorts, and Harden's perfect fit to that. If I was an opposing fan, I'd be pissed about Harden's foul calls, too... but at the end of the day I'd respect them. Don't want to give Harden 3 free throws, contest to the side as the Spurs did much of last night. Don't want to give him 2 free throws... don't hit his elbow on jumpers or bring your hands down on drives... them are the rules.

    But that said, I don't see Harden getting there because he's the leader of the team - and that's not just on the floor, that's organizationally wide. the entire team and organization is effectively in his image. that's how cultural/organizational leadership works. and while i think he'd love to be Kawhi Leonard esque defensively, he just doesn't have it in him, aside from post defense. AND following on that, as the behind the face leader of the team, he influences roster moves as well, and that influence has been to get him guards to play next to him. Maybe as a result of the Dwight teams, where he clashed with Dwight and got pissed out of that WCF that there was no playmaker next to him (which led to McHale firing, Ty Lawson failure, etc). In any case, not that "star" players are easily accessible anyway, but to the extent he had any leverage to recruit players to him, he should have been recruiting Paul George's of the world, and not the Russell Westbrooks. With Harden ALONE the backcourt is a top backcourt in the league. Put Austin Rivers as the starting SG. Put Eric Gordon as the starting shooting guard. Any halfway decent player would do.

    The ONLY reason CP3 worked even remotely was because CP3 took the Harden cultural leadership, and took a 30%-40% chunk of it, which was the chunk that reflected defensive accountability, turnover limitation, etc. and then they surrounded them with Ariza, a Luc who at least at the time were much more relevant as defensive playmakers. CP3 would have been better as a forward, but at least trait wise, he brought what was required next to Harden and leadership wise was willing to be a strong voice for those traits.

    Russ can't do that defensively. In fact, so far, from a cultural perspective he's ceded accountability 100% to Harden (and MDA) and even if he didn't, would he take any leadership defensively and limiting turnovers - no, cause that's not his game.

    Where does that leave the team?

    (1) Preferred option: Somehow upgrade the forward position without losing much of value. 3&D is cliche now, but it needs to be D... and the ability to be competent enough offensively.

    (2) Secondary option: trade Russ. Is that possible? You're unlikely to get back fair return considering the package of picks you sent to OKC. HOWEVER, I think Russ is close enough to last year and the last three years, and there are still teams in the East that have ownership groups that are desperate enough for wins, that there are opportunities. Examples: Magic (anything that lands Isaac), Hornets (I'll take Rozier, PJ Washington, Zeller or MKG and a first for a Russ led package), Pistons (don't LOVE a deal centered on Russ for Blake... but could see it make sense, Knicks (I'd consider Randle, Morris, Frank and some kind of protected first or the like). But this is NOT going to happen precisely because Harden is the cultural leader, so outside of him and Russ having frank sit-downs, etc and Russ being like "we just aren't meshing, I'm cool trying something else out"... this isn't happening

    (3) Rinse-wash-repeat: We will see some variations of the same theme for the next 3+ years. Really solid regular season teams just short in terms of roster depth, fit and defense... UNLESS Harden just goes YAM for two straight months in the playoffs.

    #3 is most likely.
     
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  6. jcmoon

    jcmoon Contributing Member

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    Yes sir, i'm glad you can see the light at the end of the tunnel....without those two in there he HAS to take some of those shots and be at the top of the key...with those two, he can go to the opposite corner 3 point line and either cut, come around a screen or two for the drive, playmake, or shoot as a last option...those two are ctitical to our team....

    westbrook is more than a willing passer...his shot attempts should go down drastically when we're fully healthy.
     
  7. smp

    smp Member

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    It seems when Harden sits, we try to play the same way as when he’s in the game. That means somebody has to try to be Harden for a while.

    That isn’t going to work. There’s only one Harden. The offense needs to change the second he sits down. He needs some rest too.
     
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  8. blackistan

    blackistan Member

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    The rockets haven’t gotten harden a legitimate sidekick ever. CP wasn’t in his prime and was injury prone (but still better than RW at this point unfortunately). Dwight didn’t work and now with Russ I don’t think there’s much that needs to be said. Until he gets proper help we aren’t winning. The other superstars in this league who are favored to win a chip ala Kawhi and Lebron have legitimate superstar counterparts. Where is hardens superstar teammate?
     
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  9. jcmoon

    jcmoon Contributing Member

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    They have to choose him, that's the problem. Jimmy Butler didn't. Paul and Westbrook did. How many of those superstars want to team up with harden considering the way we play?
     
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  10. juanm34

    juanm34 Member

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    Morley built this team to take out the Worriers.
    Morley has accomplished his mission.
    As assembled we are only 3 playoff rounds away from the finals at 100% healthy.
     
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  11. Russjr2

    Russjr2 Contributing Member

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    We need a good SF/PF type player before I say we are real contenders. I have been saying it for years now. Someone that can create their own shots below the FT line. Long athlete that can get some easy buckets from time to time. Everyone is always looking at a guys 3pt %, forget that, he needs to be able to go 1/1 near the paint and make something happen. That is the balance this offense needs. Clint and PJ can't do it. They get offensive rebounds and turn around and throw it back outside... SMH Late in games it would be nice to have a player that can get it and attack around the paint. Getting a lil tired of the long step back contested 3 to close out the game. That's a low percentage shot.
     
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  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    I said that the first day we got him.

    Disaster.

    Also because his ego and Harden respecting it, were bad for the team.


    DD
     
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  13. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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  14. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    We have 2 heroes who can take turns playing Hero Ball.
     
  15. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    This is correct.

    We were all in for 2018, and that was our shot. The reality is you don’t find teams that special very often, and that was the opportunity for a ring. Team will never get back to that level in this era, especially with Westbrook. It’s sad, but it’s the truth.
     
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  16. SWTsig

    SWTsig Contributing Member

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    As much as MDA isn't helping, there's no coach alive that could coach this team to a title. the very dna of this team is literally "let harden do whatever he wants and get out of the way." as historically great as harden has been, we don't need to see anymore evidence that he doesn't have the fortitude to lead a team to the promised land by himself. but that's precisely the way we've built this team and harden has no intention of changing that - whether it was for mchale, JB, MDA or whoever comes next.

    morey & co went all in on harden and rightfully so, but allowing him to completely dictate the way the entire team is organized isn't going to work. it's simply too hard to convince top tier talent to come here just to watch harden ISO 60% of the game. that, in turn, forces us to make outrageous trades for questionable stars who bring their own baggage and saddle the team even further. all the while, nothing about the way our supernova superstar plays changes, and the cycle continues.

    We have no choice but to sit back and hope that harden's greatness ascends his notorious postseason shortcomings and we literally ride him to the promised land. problem is, even in seemingly tailor-made opportunities to do so, he's withered in the spotlight. no reason to think that will change.
     
    #36 SWTsig, Dec 4, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
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  17. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Melo winning player of the week is ridiculous but it has nothing to do with the Rockets, except push the narrative that NBA is corrupt and has vendetta against Rockets.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    We don't ....only one in Harden.....but he gives the ball out of respect to Westbrook.

    Consider this....when Russ is on the floor without Harden, literally EVERY OTHER ROCKET is a better shooter than him.

    DD
     
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  19. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    Harden's the easiest player in the league to coach if you just want to coast.

    He gets all the blame from the non-team fans and haters. I bet coaches will be lining up to interview for the coaching job after Dantoni gets canned.

    You can easily sign a 3 year deal and just let Harden ISO every play. Don't need to run any actual plays or call time outs.
     
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  20. Mirri3000

    Mirri3000 Member

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    Be truthful, we’d already have a ring if not for both uber poor officiating AND possibly the greatest collection of talent assembled. We still could’ve, and should’ve, defeated the wars and capped a ring.

    this style can, and does work. Harden is that good, and MDA has gotten screwed from two chips, one with us, and one from the suns.

    stop complaining that D’Antoni can’t coach
     

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