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So the Astros 2017 title is tainted

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by rockets13champs, Nov 12, 2019.

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  1. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    Olney has a hard on for the Astros and now he's goading the Commish into wrecking shop.
     
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  2. JazzLakerHater

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    This and the Texans debacle has me in a very bad mood.
     
  3. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    The only thing that's shocking to me is how open all this is. It's one thing to cheat, it's another to cheat so much and so often and so brazenly people can find evidence from official MLB videos and emails catches team employees red handed. That they continue to do this even after being found out.

    At some point you wonder what the hell is wrong with the entire organization that they can do this.
     
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  4. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    It's almost like they hired some really smart guys that had no experience in baseball and wanted to see how much they could get away with in a win at all cost now mentality. If they get kicked out so what. They can always get into another line of work and excel.
     
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  5. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    Gotta disagree. The spreadsheet guys are the grunts getting paid half of what they're worth working twice the hours because they love the game. And besides the Astros winning by cheating reflect badly on their work anyway. The recent defections in the analytics staff likely has in part to do with all this.

    This is absolutely on the wall street mentality of the upper management and the players/coaches all getting paydays from their individual and team success
     
  6. Beezy

    Beezy Member

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    Looks like the end of the Astros dynasty will be self inflicted. I'm fully expecting MLB to make a severe example out of the Astros.
     
  7. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    I haven’t kept up with everything but I’m curious if there are examples of the Astros relaying the wrong pitches.
     
  8. The Real Shady

    The Real Shady Contributing Member

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    I'm sure plenty of times. Especially over the last few years when everyone knew they were doing it.

    Anyone think that Carlos Beltran was signed by the Yankees as a consultant solely for the fact he would give them information on what the Astros were doing so they could stop it?
     
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  9. RustyHarden

    RustyHarden Member

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    Just got done watching this vid. Evidence shows Springer, Bregman, & Beltran using the tactic. And lol at top comment. Performance Enhancing Trashcans.
     
  10. RustyHarden

    RustyHarden Member

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    I'd have to imagine Beltran helped implement the system for the Yankees. Something more advanced than the trash can method
     
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  11. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    The A's must use the trash cans also. I hear them all game long in Oakland. It's really annoying.
     
  12. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    Yeah I mean it couldn't have been that big of a secret considering they were banging ****ing metal. If Yu is noticing Yelich looking up at a certain part of the field then I'm sure everyone in the dugout on the other side is recognizing metal banging before the pitches.
     
  13. Rockets12

    Rockets12 Member

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    That would explain why they were so bad offensively there this year. Kept getting confused
     
  14. msn

    msn Member

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    So, this sucks. It sucks. I keep hoping to see evidence like this from other locker rooms. If every other team does it, please show evidence. If some of Astros leadership have cast an asterisk on the best moment in Astros' history, the disappointment runs deep. Worse than 38-35. Way worse.
     
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  15. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    At this point, not sure if the actual act is bothering me more vs. some of the dramatic head-in-sand responses in here...

    This front office has always been ruthless about competitive advantage... and there was a time where there were no explicit rules in 2017 for them doing what they are accused of doing. I'm not buying the lone camera theory as much as what they did with guys on 2nd base, or the email encouraging scouts to use binoculars to steal signs. Again, those things are certainly stretching the rules of what is "legal" and what is not, but to think this front office wouldn't try and exploit every single advantage (as we've seen them do in service time manipulation, draft salary manipulation, pre-draft medicals, arbitration negotiations, and lastly the yet to be proven malicious spin-rate manipulation...)... is a little self-righteous.

    If anything, continuing to win as they have been only further fuels the practices. There will be more areas exploited, and the Astros will be on the forefront of those aspects as well. Had this regime been around in the 90's/2000's, they'd probably have their own "compounding pharmacy" paid for with hand-picked Dr's and pharmacists.... because again, not against the rules of baseball at the time.

    If this leads to much needed innovations like wireless communication for pitchers/catchers and the eventual electronicalization of everything (from strike zones to foul tips to pitching clocks...) I hope the supposed purists in here can live with themselves. Because sign-stealing has been just as much a part of this game as the human element of calling balls/strikes. If modernization is needed to combat the technological advances that exist nowadays, then everybody has to accept change in order to keep the game fair.

    I also would buy into the facet that the Astros have been spied/hacked just as much as they've done to other teams... its just that they're clearly doing it better, as they've done a lot of things better, hence they deserve the focus.
     
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  16. vince

    vince Member

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    Fiers is just salty... He’s a tool and nothing else. The Astros will keep winning, and they will be made an example by the MLB.

    But, that’s a part of not being a part of baseball royalty teams (Yankees, Red Sox, Cardinals, Dodgers, etc...)
     
  17. SS0101

    SS0101 Member

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    I would just like to add to your opening point. The actual act itself, imo, is not as bothersome as the daily news cycle and fact manipulation that is going on on social media and even in headlines from "news sources/journalists." The actual act itself does not make me ashamed of the Astros winning. Imo, so long as the Astros didnt intentionally lose the World Series/Dodgers intentionally lose the World Series, then all this points to is that the Astros were better at literally everything, including "cheating." I say this because I have seen enough "evidence" that points to this being a league wide problem and not just an Astros problem. We are just the popular target because we are so freaking good. Fix the league, and so long as we can keep our head guys intact, I feel confident we will still be the best.

    For the argument of, "if you are ok with this, then your hypocritical if you dont feel the same way about the steroid era." All I have to say about that is that steroids are a controlled, illegal, drug. Even so, the steroid scandal took the turn that it took because congress decided to insert themselves into it by starting their own investigation (again, bc it is illegal). Dont forget, MLB was doing its best to sweep that under the rug as well. Manfred/MLB even tried buying the evidence from the whole BioGenisis scandal which was what implicated A-Rod, Braun, Gio Gonzalez, Manny Ramirez, etc. So they really arent the "same" in my view.

    As for other forms of "cheating," like pine tar, grip, etc, I actually do feel the same. It is part of the culture of 150 years of baseball. If you can do it, do it. Get away with, more power to you.
     
  18. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    I honestly can't wait for this to happen in local little leagues. I know damn well I'm helping my nephews team steal signs. Gotta prepare these kids for the real world.
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    For all the people that are saying the Astros were better at cheating than other teams, I'd point out they are the only ones stupid enough to have gotten caught so far - and leave evidence all over the place.
     
  20. htwnbandit

    htwnbandit Member

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    I wouldn't say they "got caught" so much as they were completely snitched on.
     
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