1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Trading Correa for a young pitcher with team control

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Senator, Jul 18, 2019.

?

Poll

  1. Yes

    30.1%
  2. No

    69.9%
  1. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,915
    Likes Received:
    14,156
    You don't think other teams see the injury concern? You don't think other teams will realize why the Astros would put him on the market with 2 years of club control remaining? LOL talking about Thor as if he was traded... even the Mets realize the value of club control..

    The ONLY above average players who go on the market at that stage are flawed. The Pirates never would have traded Cole if they thought THIS version of him was within him.

    I also don't believe they have to trade Correa to get good pitching. When was the last time Luhnow had to trade an established star, with club control, to get anything?

    Like I've said before... the Astros don't trade those guys. They trade for those guys.
     
  2. vince

    vince Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2000
    Messages:
    3,241
    Likes Received:
    2,465
    The Astros know that with the right team, two years of Correa is two potential MVP caliber years.

    Shoot the Astros were willing to trade for Bryce Harper merely for a 3 month rental.

    So I doubt they trade Correa for salvage value.
     
  3. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2012
    Messages:
    10,955
    Likes Received:
    14,702
    Correa and Cole are not the only 2 good players reaching free agency in the next 3 years. If Houston has $200M to spend and they don’t spend it on Cole or Correa, there will be other players they could sign who might represent a much better value. You can get a whole bunch of Michael Brantley’s and Charlie Morton’s with that kind of money.
     
    jim1961 and Gray_Jay like this.
  4. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    28,719
    Likes Received:
    6,991
    The team was worth 800M in 2015. We win the world series in 2017. And now they are worth 1.8B. I think spending the money on everyone, including Cole and Correa translates. Don't let salary get in the way of good business. Remove it from the equation. Player salaries increased 100M over that time, omg, so scary, yet revenues increased by 200M, and the team value increased by 1Billion. Greed is good.
     
    #124 PhiSlammaJamma, Sep 6, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
  5. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    Messages:
    18,999
    Likes Received:
    27,530
    Team values consistently go up in general. They go up quicker when you establish a winning brand, which we've already done. They don't keep going up if you win a ton, the value plateaus. If winning did correlate to such continued growth players would be getting paid a ton more than they are.

    Signing Cole and Correa would put us well into the luxury tax. So we're likely talking close to 80-100 million per year to retain those 2 players and keep up the rest of the team around them. No owner in the world is doing that.

    As for the poll nobody trades team controlled studs unless they have major flaws. And any team looking to trade for Correa is looking to win now, so why in the f**k would they trade a good young pitcher.
     
    Snake Diggit likes this.
  6. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    No. This is not a giant market team. They do not have the current cash flow to keep up with the Yankees and Sox. Get a legit PPV outlet for their games like those teams do, and I'll change my mind, but gate, their current TV deal, and other revenue isn't enough, IMHO, for them to afford everybody they want to pay. Frankly, I'm surprised they spend as much as they do.

    Team value appreciation is gigantic, but difficult to realize until Crane sells the team. I don't know whether his ownership group has the reserves to run the operation at a net operating loss, with the aim of making up losses via a sale some time down the road. I doubt it. No doubt though that they're going to clean up, if and when they sell.

    So, if you cant keep everybody, start thinking about what players are going to be worth keeping when they hit FA and what it'll cost to keep them. I've enjoyed reading the posts Snake here has written about value, dollars per projected WAR, and things like that. I thought of Thor after reading one of his posts mentioning him, when I advocated moving Correa for someone like De Grom before the trade deadline. Of course, the team went for Greinke instead---and Correa got hurt, again---and here we are.

    Aside, how are we liking the Greinke trade so far? I hope AZ Greinke shows up soon.
     
  7. rockets1995

    rockets1995 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2011
    Messages:
    5,269
    Likes Received:
    6,479
    Carlos Correa injuries or not he is productive when healthy, his injuries are setting him back, from All Star appearances and salary bonus.

    Carlos is very frustrated by these freak injuries, a massage therapist fractured his rib, now back spasms, ask Michael Brantley about his injuries during his whole career in Cleveland. It was sad to watch Brantley get constantly injured.

    In fantasy baseball you read about Michael Brantley injuries, He is always producing unfortunately he missed a lot of games for the Indians, even season ending. Very happy for Michael Brantley these 2 years of solid healthy years, as a All Star.
     
  8. lnchan

    lnchan Sugar Land Leonard

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2010
    Messages:
    8,060
    Likes Received:
    10,855
    What if the Astros simply load managed Correa... and he is simply the baseball version of Kawhi?
     
  9. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,915
    Likes Received:
    14,156
    Even if they keep the pipeline going, the current regime's championship window will last about as long as the primes of Altuve/Springer/Bregman/Correa last. As soon as one or two of them starts to decline, or if one stays permanently injured, they're probably not going to be fielding the greatest offense of all time, and their championship odds will suffer.

    Thus, if you're really only talking about maintaining a larger payroll for the 3-5 year window, THAT is the question the owners will need to ask themselves as far as operating at a slight loss goes.

    Its also only sustainable if they're consistently making deep playoff runs... which we all know are never guaranteed in baseball. If they somehow have an injury plagued year with the high payroll and don't make the playoffs, that could lead to a drastic abort (see the Red Sox from this year, as they've now fired their GM, will look to trade high priced players, and may not re-sign free agents to be).
     
    Gray_Jay likes this.
  10. conquistador#11

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    35,960
    Likes Received:
    22,338
    I wonder how that load management would look like.
    No 'massages' past Midnight. No team celebrations where they tackle each other, rest all allstar week and a total of 138 games out of the 162.
     
    #130 conquistador#11, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
    BallSoHarden likes this.
  11. Gray_Jay

    Gray_Jay Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2010
    Messages:
    1,910
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    Which will relate to the Astros, if the Sox let Mookie go, and they think that Springer costing 3/4 as much is a good enough substitute.

    Good post. As most of yours are.

    Does thinking around a 3-5 year window imply they'll tank down again when they get past this window? Or is there enough projected in the pipeline (especially if they trade at-peak or just past it stars) that a true tank job won't be required?
     
  12. Wulaw Horn

    Wulaw Horn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2018
    Messages:
    4,426
    Likes Received:
    4,495
    They might reset but I don’t think they will tank again because they have too much talent in this system to get that bad again, imo. It would look like what the yankees did when their last group ended and they transitioned from the Arod era to the judge era.
     
    Gray_Jay likes this.
  13. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 1999
    Messages:
    47,915
    Likes Received:
    14,156
    Agreed. As long as they continue to draft well, keep signing their picks, and don't start chasing it when its obvious their window is closed (by trading away prospects for veterans), they'll hang around.

    This regime got jump-started because they already had Altuve, Keuchel and Springer ready to play. The tanking produced Correa, LMC, Bregman (but no Appel). The farm pieces they used to get Verlander and Cole could probably have been obtained without tanking.
     
    Wulaw Horn, Gray_Jay and Snake Diggit like this.
  14. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    28,719
    Likes Received:
    6,991
  15. rocketpower2

    rocketpower2 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    11,030
    Likes Received:
    2,393
    Nah, they'll be in contention for a while. Player development under this regime is too damn good.
     
  16. elrond

    elrond Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Messages:
    590
    Likes Received:
    625
    So here's hoping that Correa sticks to the quote in this article where he says he will always be there to pick up Altuve :p
    https://www.lavidabaseball.com/corr...tros-and-took-it-to-cap-classic-over-yankees/

    Anyone else thinks Correa should be pulling Tyler White duty next season? That rocket for the DP was just awesome, I think they clocked it close to 95mph. Not that I want to see Correa have any extra possibilities of getting freak injuries, but I think it'd still be pretty cool to see him throwing occasionally in blowouts :p
     
  17. Jeremy Williams

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,166
    Likes Received:
    878
    This thread needs to be killed.
     
  18. magichat281

    magichat281 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2015
    Messages:
    481
    Likes Received:
    272
    we ditch greinke and we need to go back to the farm. This year and next year will be our last chances at the world series. We need hit the farm and look for more young talent like we did. correa springer bregman are our young core and we build around them with some good pitchers we are good to go.
     
  19. PhiSlammaJamma

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 1999
    Messages:
    28,719
    Likes Received:
    6,991
    A decade of decadence or more coming. This team is transcendent. We've moved beyond the farm. People are so used to us being mediocre and midmarket they are failing to realize that we are at the big table now. Strategies change. We suck free agents from other teams and sit them on our bench because we can do that. They come to us. We are like gravity. The farm was great. But we live in the big city now and we have to own that. That's how you maintain success at this level.
     
    Plowman likes this.
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,658
    Likes Received:
    41,545
    I said this in another thread but Correa has the potential to be one of the greats. When he's been healthy he puts up MVP type numbers. Injuries are unfortunately part of the game and the great ones are the ones that not only have the talent and the will but the luck to avoid injuries.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now