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[From GARM with love] China v. GM Daryl Morey’s personal views

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by B-Bob, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. Kim

    Kim Contributing Member

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    You are wrong. NPR is one voice of the media, the 4th estate. We have divided government with dissenting voices at the federal and state and even local levels. I like NPR, but to portray one national radio news as the voice of the US is ignorant.

    What is the minority voice represented within government in China. Who vocally dissents with the CCCP? I'm not arguing that ove system of government is better than the other. They accomplish different goals and have different values.

    But as someone who has lived in different countries, traveled almost every state, and has working and personal relationships with people from all over the world, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people from outside AND from within the US have this conception that Americans all believe this or that.

    American opinions, media consumption, media opinions, and political ideology has massive variation across all topics. We are a large, diverse, and weird country that takes a lifetime to experience and learn.
     
    Ottomaton, Nook and FranchiseBlade like this.
  2. dmoneybangbang

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    And China during modern times has committed great atrocities focusing on its entire internal issues from the Cultural Revolution, One Child Policy, re-education camps, and just all things that come along with authoritarianism.

    Well mostly because they don’t have the power to project force until recently. The USSR could project force, why would China not act like the USSR once it become powerful?

    And the US has done same thing since WW2. However we don’t sucker countries into debt traps.

    Power fills a vacuum. I trust the US and it’s system to better the world over China’s.

    China is building an alternative internet so it can create a false view of the world. China is so soft it banned Winnie the Pooh, that’s the superior system? Give me a break.
     
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  3. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    Out of the examples u gave, cultural revolution was a mistake, the others probably have to agree to disagree. Honestly I can't think of anything China did that westerners didn't consider a mistake.


    There are plenty of countries with less powers interfering with other countries' businesses, both through influence and military like Russia, Iran, Saudi, Turkey etc. Of all the major powers out there u can trust China to have the least chance to get involved in war. I would argue China is already as powerful or more powerful than USSR, they are just not interested in other countries conflicts and they are not interested in war in general. On China's 70s year parade, they displayed 4 words as their key message to the world one of which was "peace". I wish at least some westerners didn't choose to ignore it.

    Wait I thought US was always in war since WW2 no?


    I think it's superior but objectively it's probably pros and cons.

    break.
     
  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    That is nice, but that would require Morey lying and showing no integrity. The reality is that Morey DOES support the Hong Kong protestors and does support self determination. There is a reason why he tried to show respect in his response and also not say his opinion has changed.

    That does not mean Morey doesn’t like going to China or dislikes Chinese people. What it means is that on the particular issue of Hong Kong, Morey supports the protestors.

    I keep hearing from people in China that he should have said it was a rash tweet and he is sorry and doesn’t support those protestors on the street. You are asking him to lie. It would be an insincere apology... I have more respect for him as a man because he stood by his principles even with heavy pressure on him.
     
  5. Nook

    Nook Member

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    You are very naive if you think that China has been “building infrastructures” and there have not been many negative consequences. Especially in Africa, the Chinese have been terrible.
     
  6. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Why is it lying? He would state he does not support radicalized movements and unlawful acts there. Why would that be lying? That was all it is needed.
     
  7. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    I don't know all the details but I wouldn't be naive enough to think it would be "all positive", in fact I don't believe anything we do in this world can be "all positive". But as long as people are willing to work together, I believe we can make this world go towards an overall positive direction.
     
  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Because he does support what the CCP would view as a radicalized movement? Because by definition he does support what the CCP would view as unlawful acts?

    He supports those protestors in Hong Kong. He has in the past discussed how he believes strongly in self determination. He also has expressed his support of democracies.

    What many Chinese take that to mean is he doesn’t like China or the Chinese. What it means in reality is that on this issue (Hong Kong) he supports their right to self determination. It does not mean that he has any animosity towards the people of China.
     
  9. Nook

    Nook Member

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    China is in Africa for the same reason Europe and to a lesser extent the USA were. To exploit their resources and people.

    The difference is that China is also trying to control the economies and basic government of Africa. China has also shown no regard for the health of Africans or the environment. For example the African goldmines and numerous large scale ecological disasters and explosions. Many of the infrastructure projects in Africa have not worked properly and the quality in China has been questioned. China has also been caught numerous times conducting illegal acts in Africa usually centered around gold.

    China isn’t unique in many regards including working for their self interest the West does that as well but not the same way and not as pervasively.

    There are a number of countries with blood on their hands, such as Russia; USA; UK and China.
     
  10. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    Essentially yall want Morey to fly US flag, be a states man, to make yall feel good, at the expense of Rockets and NBA?
    Don't say it's China's fault. Do you say that to Walmart if it cuts off a supplier because the supplier's executive says something about Walmart's minimum wage policy?
     
  11. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    Show me a media that is different from CNN NBC fox . Npr ....l am looking for a media that can report news on people on truth not capitalists propaganda promoting fascism. So far I do not see one.

    Any Bernnie Sanders media? Would love to read that one.
     
  12. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I don’t care if Morey flies the USA flag or not. He had said numerous negative things about the US President. The point is he gave his opinion and I respect that he stood by his opinion.

    As far as Walmart is concerned, they are roundly criticized in the USA (and rightfully so), to the point that Walmart sucummed to public pressure and increased wages.

    Part of the disconnect is that in the West a person can criticize a policy or what someone has done and it isn’t a big deal and it doesn’t mean that the person dislikes everything about the target they criticize.

    When LeBron James criticizes the President or police officers in the USA, does that mean he hates the USA? Absolutely not.

    Also it isn’t about “make y’all feel good”. It is about the fact that the overwhelming vast majority of the West believes in self determination and freedom of speech and expression.
     
  13. Miracle

    Miracle Member

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    The recent level of violence is unlawful in most part of the world. It would be lying to deny that.

    He could show that he has awareness and respect of the Chinese bottom line on national sovereignty -- sth. like "One China Policy" and "Hong Kong is part of China" -- which is perceived as important as the right of free expression in the US. Anyone that is perceived to disagree with those could forget about doing business in China. He might not even have to point out the wrongdoings of the protesters or explicitly saying he does not support them. Meanwhile, he could keep silent on other things that different sides disagree upon.
     
    #133 Miracle, Oct 13, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  14. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    You are missing the point and don’t assume standing on a different opinion from the populous is in the other camp. If you want to keep the business as a business, you don’t demand the customer to respect your freedom of speech without consequences.
    Here is a story of mine, an import client of ours was saying stuff unreaptable about Jewish people. I am not Jewish but I was deeply troubled by it. I was going to speak up against him and confront him. My business partner sensed it, and pulled me out right before I was going to say it. He said look we all know how horrible that was, but I have a family with kids and a wife, he pays the bill never late, don’t fxxk this up for the sake of our families and our team.
    I bit my tongue. I don’t know what you do. It may be easier for you say all a lot of this.
     
  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I’m not saying it is easy and I am not judging you for biting your tongue. What I am saying is I have a lot of respect for people that stand by their convictions. Why? Because it is hard.
     
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  16. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    No, I think differently. That's easier than a thoughtful difficult decision done right.
     
  17. dmoneybangbang

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    It was a big mistake that set the country far back and it's effects are still in the policies of your leaders.

    Of course you see nothing wrong with currently imprisoning people against their will, stripping them of the culture, and creating a hyper surveillance state.

    I'm sure you could think of at least one thing if you actually tried.

    China is the second largest arms dealer in the world now.....China is is very much involved in the economies and political systems of Africa, far SE Asia and Eurasia. How's China going to act if/when it gets a powerful navy and military that can project power over some of these far flung interests?

    It's not pretty but we keep the modern economy running with oil. The reality of it is without oil, you are back to horses and mules. China and much of the world has benefited from that relatively inexpensive oil. Be interesting to see how China's relationship with the Saudis and Iranians evolve.

    I think it's inferior because of the censure-ship and surveillance state, that isn't a long term strategy and the mark of insecurity.

    Let's see how China deals with the correction and shift from overproduction to consumption. Maybe your bubble will pop as your stimulus is getting less effective or maybe you'll just have Japanese stagnation as the population ages.
     
  18. Miracle

    Miracle Member

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    As one other comment suggests, except for the Cultural Revolution, the other two policies / actions have pros and cons despite most westerners perceive them simply as human right abuses. Many political issues are not just black and white.

    The debt crisis in Greece was literally initiated by Goldman Sachs help them hide debts and get into the eurozone. The US influences other countries' finance / economics through those large corporations more often than through political forces from the government.


    Some views from Chinese of the world are false. But the same can be said for the world's view of China. Many influential western media is somewhat biased against China. Youtube, the most influential online video platform, is actually suppressing pro-China contents.

    Also, Winnie the Pooh itself is NOT blocked on the Chinese Internet at the moment. It was blocked for a couple of days when the pictures that mocked Chairman Xi emerged, but then the ban got lifted. From a political perspective, it is understandable that the authorities prefer not to use a US cartoon figure as the public image of the Chinese president among its people. Therefore the images that showed the resemblance were taken down as a level of censorship over the Chinese Internet.
     
    #138 Miracle, Oct 13, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2019
  19. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    I can see the exploit but I also think it's a nessesary and temporary phase. Underdeveloped countries usually have to sell their raw resources to make money and kickoff their development, after all nothing comes for free right. Saudi Arabia had no economy until Americans started "exploiting" their oil. Over the years they were able to develop their country, acquire the nessesary power and technology to take control of their own oil industry, and became the country today. China's path was not all that different. From selling raw resources, to small manufactured products, to eventually some advanced stuff like high speed trains and 5g.

    Trumps trade war was a wakeup call to a lot of Chinese people on the importance of Xi's belt and road strategy. China needs to develop new, sustainable trade routes and partners otherwise we'll never be economically free from the US. You can trust its going to be win win situation for everyone, China play the long game and don't nessesarily priotize short term gains. They would make sure the trillion dollar project actually result sustainable trade routes, it won't be worth anything if you get cash but people don't like u and don't want to work with u anymore.

    That being said bumps here and there would definetly be expected. Irresponsible and corrupted individuals could lead to failures. Even in China itself there has been cases of high speed train crashes, bridges collapses. But overall the countrys development has been very successful. Hell even Michal the goat Jordan missed over 9000 shots in his career right?
     
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  20. KingLeoric

    KingLeoric Member

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    One thing about CCP is their ability to evolve and learn from their mistakes. Their policies today is already very far from USSR era and Mao's era. They actually have schools that teaches the party history and all the mistakes like cultural revolution it has made in textbooks.

    I see pros and cons.


    Not really but if I really really really try I could probably find something I suppose...


    Anything could happen the world is not really a stable place, but they would still try therir best to stay in peace.


    Liquid gold!!


    Maybe... I've been hearing China's collapse for like 20 years from westerners still haven't seen it happen. They've overcome a lot of difficult times I hope they can continue. Meanwhile Britiain, France even US all have their own struggles I hope they can overcome their difficulties too.
     

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