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Five policemen shot in southeast Houston

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by NewRoxFan, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    A ridiculous position. Are we going to have government get into policing everything everybody consumes?

    People need to be allowed to make their own decisions about what they consume, and then feel the consequences of those decisions -- without government involvement one way or another.
     
  2. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    It's a good question. Moral busybodies and those who support police statism is (are) the answers, unfortunately.
     
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  3. BruceAndre

    BruceAndre Member

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    Hear, here. Great post.
     
  4. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    I don't think @Ottomaton is getting any "pleasure" from questioning the official rationale for this bust. Your post suggests a concerning Blue Lives Matter-esque approach to police work; because they wear a badge and are sworn to protect their fellow citizens, their methods and decision-making are beyond reproach. As if somehow being a cop matters more than how they police the city. It's an odd pedestal to put them on and one that can lead to fears of state-worship that @BruceAndre is calling out.

    There are a lot of rabbit holes that we could all go down during this discussion (like your comment about selling drugs and forfeiting rights), but it sounds to me that folks are concerned that HPD is trying to make a 1+1=3 argument. You're arguing that because, in the end, two people who were found with drugs (and fired on police officers when confronted) died, the ends have justified the means. Others are more concerned that the means were unnecessary given the threat and now the city is spending money on surgery and rehabilitation for five police officers whose presence in danger may not have been necessary.
     
    B-Bob, BruceAndre, Newlin and 2 others like this.
  5. Senator

    Senator Member

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    No, you’re wrong here. This mentality drives humanity and the earth into the ground because there is a line.

    Heroin is well beyond it. Meth is well beyond it. You are a liability to anyone around you the second you touch it, period, and your rights are stripped.

    No different to someone with a toy gun in a bank, the second you put it up, you have no rights.
     
  6. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Of course you have rights. The idea that drug dealers have no rights is crazy.
     
  7. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    The goal was to go in and secure as much evidence as possible so they could put these guys away for as long as possible. If you knock on the door and wait politely for an answer, it gives them a chance to destroy evidence. Given that they established already that this was a dealer house, I think the no knock is fine. In most instances you won't have people immediately shooting at police and things would go fairly smoothly.

    You could have the same situation arise from a routine traffic stop or merely asking a male feminist to leave a middle school, being a cop is inherently dangerous and nothing is going to change that.
     
  8. Senator

    Senator Member

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    i have seen many, many situations that do not make the 10 o clock news. I have also seen the difference between certain drugs like heroin vs milder intoxicants. There is a line and police need to regulate for public and personal safety. The fact they were fired upon by a couple that knew exactly what they were doing shows you how serious these issues are.

    Don’t bring in your ivory tower ideals for a very real situation that went wrong. When shotguns are fir d through doors, people get hurt regardless of precautions. Ultimately, you have to go in and make an arrest and can’t spend days on a stakeout in the chance that 0.5% of these end up with cop shooters.
     
  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    What's with you and wanting to strip people of their rights? Weren't you the guy also suggesting ending birthright citizenship?

    You still have your rights even if you are a heroin dealer, but that doesn't mean you get to shoot at cops. No one has the right to do that and that's the reason the 2 dealers are dead. They'd merely be in jail right now if they hadn't attacked officers.
     
  10. Senator

    Senator Member

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    Drugs of a certain class. Particularly heroin if you know the communities and people’s it ravages, certain opioids. Again, spoken like a cheerleader who has only seen these things through breaking bad and not on a daily case by case basis. It’s how you end epidemics.
     
  11. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Hey, I'm not on the legalization of heroin train. I'm disputing your idea that a drug dealer has no rights. Even a heroin dealer. The Supreme Court disagrees with you (repeatedly) on this and so do most Americans. I agree that a person selling heroin is despicable and I have no problem with them facing justice. They still have rights.
     
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  12. Senator

    Senator Member

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    They aren’t accurate in the 21st century. Using rights as a safety net let’s idiots justify arming teachers to save lives. Times change, change with them.

    Black tar heroin means cops can knock or break down your door , whatever they please. Shooting at them means you’ve got no rights. Period. Too much protocol in these high intensity situations always hurts th innocent citizen and police, because th bad guys will exploit it 100%.
     
  13. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Yikes.
     
  14. Senator

    Senator Member

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    Read above post on rights. Its something a lot of confederates like to fall back on when they can’t debate with logic.

    Gotta keep guns in case th govt invades, my semi autos will hold off the tanker!

    Or how illegals keep gaming the system, hurting legal immigrants and the poor.

    Don’t be afraid to think without your pre programmed dducation once in a while.
     
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Yawn.

    Try to have a conversation without the insults.

    If you believe that people who touch certain drugs are immediately stripped of their rights you need to read up on the law.
     
  16. Senator

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    This same law tells me I can take a semi auto with me wherever I go , even if I’m mentally ill.

    This is a nuanced case by case basis. Cops shld be able to get aggressive when you’re dealing heroin, and your rights are stripped the second you fire at them.

    If a big teen points a gun at you in a mall , what does the law say you do?
     
  17. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    To be clear...

    When you say they are stripped of all rights and that we need to get re-educated if we think otherwise, are you just saying that you think they should be? You acknowledge that you aren't right by law it's just you arguing against the law?
     
  18. HTM

    HTM Member

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    I'm generally pro legalizing drugs but I am on the fence and willing to be convinced either way about drugs like (Heroin/Meth) that are so destructive to individuals and the secondary effects those have on their communities (The ill health effects/crime/destruction of the family etc.. etc..)
     
  19. mtbrays

    mtbrays Contributing Member
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    What, exactly, are my "ivory tower ideals"? I don't disagree with you that all bets are off the moment somebody shoots at a police offer. What I'm questioning is why these five officers were put in a position to be fired on in the first place. Was there an immediate public safety need that required a no-knock, SWAT-style entry of a home or could this situation have been policed differently in a way that didn't result in the injury of five officers?

    You say that "Ultimately, you have to go in and make an arrest and can't spend days on a stakeout." Why not? Surely the costs of a stakeout - both the financial cost and time commitment - would've been less than what is now going to be required to rehabilitate these officers who were shot? There's a loose end somewhere in the public justification for this raid and people are now interested in getting to the bottom of it.
     
  20. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I'm pro legalization of mar1juana but 100% against legalization of harder more destructive drugs like cocaine, heroin, etc. I equate mar1juana more with alcohol and cigarettes (with actual medical upside) and the others aren't even close. I think society has every right AND a moral imperative to take action on extremely destructive behavior.
     
    Buck Turgidson likes this.

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