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Breaking: Trump's Wall

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Carl Herrera, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    That's a misrepresentation of the conversation though. It's more like

    Lib - Walls are immoral and a wall along the southern border would be a waste of money as it would be largely ineffective

    Rational adult - Well that's not what Democrats were saying a few years back when they helped build 700 miles worth of border barriers along the southern border that have proven largely effective in cutting crossings in half.....

    Lib - Walls don't work and are nothing but a racist dog whistle!
     
  2. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    edwardc likes this.
  3. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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  4. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    The goal post shifts with a lot of liberals... and conservatives to be fair. Exactly why I would love for some of the posters here to actually develop some principles instead of emotinal reactions of "good" and "bad" for the utopia that exists only in their heads.
     
  5. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    SMH... when someone says people should develop principles then complains when people make decisions based on moral principles of "good" or "bad."
     
  6. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Not that Democrats were likely to approve trump's deal (basically, offerings reduced things offered previously), but then trump and the republicans try to sneak this add-on in...

     
  7. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Read the entire sentence. It was in context to utopias which are impossible. I will say it again... context matters. Learn to read.
     
  8. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Oh, I know how to read. Now you address your criticism of those that base decisions on what is right and wrong? And if that isn't basing a decision of principles, what "principles" should they be basing important decisions on?

    I know the concept of principles based on what is right or wrong seems foreign to trump supporters, but...
     
  9. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Good and bad are not principles. They are adjectives to describe things. I know it may be hard to believe, but there are varying levels of complex criteria that form rules and laws that we establish to better guide our life. Yes we can guide them in good ways and bad ways. But the idea that I put forward was suggesting that people have unrealistic ideas because they see life in terms of simply good for my utopian ideal of what the world should be and bad for this utopian fantasy. These are not tenable. A utopia doesn't exist and one utopia is not a utopia for all, and never will be. The proposed idea is that thinking in such a way is mindless and establishing principles, as in rules for one's own life and political beliefs, are far more useful that saying good or bad for some conjured up political utopia. Now principles are things I refer to that generally help maximize personal liberty. That in itself is a principle and I do acknowledge that this does not create a utopia. Rather it creates a chance for as many people as possible to live a life in the manner they see fit. Here are some other principles: Innocent until proven guilt, consent of the governed, rule of law, representative government, etc. Believing and supporting principles means sometimes things aren't always perfect, but you accept them because you have defined your political principles and values. For example innocent until proven guilty. Sometimes people who seem really guilty get away with it, and we have to accept that price because it ultimately helps the innocent. In theory. No I am not simply saying good and bad, because innocent until proven guilty also has bad elements to it where guilty people get away with it.
     
  10. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Lots of words. Unfortunately, folks are finding more and more reasons to ignore or even abandon what they know is right versus wrong in order to be accept and defend what is politically expedient. trump is the embodiment of that trend... deep down, people know its wrong, but they twist themselves into pretzels defending and accepting the things he says and does. Yesterday was Martin Luther King Junior Day, and a number of his best known quotes were tweeted out. A few seem most appropriate to this conversation:

    "The time is always right to do what is right."

    “There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe nor politic nor popular, but he must take it because his conscience tells him it is right.”

    “Never, never be afraid to do what’s right, especially if the well-being of a person or animal is at stake. Society’s punishments are small compared to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.”
     
  11. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
     
  12. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    Stephen Garrard Post, writing about altruism, suggests that good intentions are often not what they seem and that mankind normally acts from less worthy, selfish motives—"If the road to hell is paved with good intentions, it is partly because that is the road they generally start out on."
     
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  13. dachuda86

    dachuda86 Member

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    Good for him.
     
  14. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  15. MystikArkitect

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    Trump about to take that hard L on his wall....again.
     
  16. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    Walls do effect casual pedestrian immigration, and wildlife migrations, and watersheds, and American access to the Rio Grande

    They don't stop drugs of any volume like Chinese Fentanyl, Visa abusers or organized criminal smuggling where concerted efforts can be made like tunnels, de-construction, or drones.

    They would prevent some valid asylum seekers from reaching their legal processing.

    Agree?
     
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  17. HTM

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    1. Walls, generally, stop people from moving between two demarcated areas. This is true at various borders/areas around the world. It's why much of California's southern border has some sort of wall/fencing/physical barrier and why significant areas of the border already have physical barriers.
    2. Most drugs come through the ports of entry, more walls/fencing/physical barriers along the border would likely have little impact on drug smuggling.
    3. I think the asylum process has turned into an absolute joke. Everyone from central america is now told to claim they are an asylum seeker. It's become a total farce and a disingenuous pretext for claiming a right of entry into the United States.
     
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  18. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    The Asylum process is the Law Of The Land as it stands now.
    I, and I think most reasonable libby's believe that walls in urban zones are necessary.

    How about the wildlife migration and water issues? and unbuildable terrain?
     
  19. CCorn

    CCorn Member

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  20. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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    This is the "new theme"... same as as the old one. Smell of desperation in the air... how soon will MS13 pictures be posted again?

     

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