James Harden Right Shoulder, Air Cupping Treatment

It's because athletes are more likely to "experiment" with their body than the regular person.

Obviously there is the "do anything to get ahead" mentality, but they are also more dependent on healing faster than the average person is.


For example: when Harden tore his hamstring an average person would've healed fine with just resting in ~4-8 weeks, but Harden wanted to heal faster and got the PRP treatment which allowed him to come back in about 3 weeks.

 

Say what you want, but it feeels gooood. Chances are if you like a massage, you like cupping...therapy!.. cupping therapy. lol

 

Air cupping is like air guitar: There's no science saying anything tangible is actually being produced, but the person doing it feels like they're accomplishing something.

 

That's probably more of a hypothesis/claim than direct evidence of its effectiveness. Even assuming it's true, why assume that more oxygen is always better? If his body/shoulders had enough oxygen, could increasing the blood-flow (and amount of oxygen) have some harmful side-effects? These are all questions that could be answered with clinical research, and AFAIK, they seem to indicate there are no benefits to cupping.

On a side-note, while hyperbaric chambers have their uses, I think a lot of athletes also use them even though they don't really seem to have any benefits in those cases. Unless you have something like severe anemia or a major radiation injury, I don't think many athletes really need to use them (especially given some potential risks...like a collapsed lung or even seizures due to *too* much oxygen).

I understand *why* athletes are more likely to do these things, but it still drives me crazy. These guys are smarter and more informed than ever before, and we're learning how much the "old school" train of thought isn't always correct (despite it maybe *seeming* correct).

Similar to the above, PRP also hasn't seemed to show any strong benefits to the healing process of hamstring injuries. A quick Google search showed me a meta-analysis of random-controlled trials for hamstring injuries that showed only a 3% greater return to play with PRP (which was also not statistically significant). I'm sure some would latch on to that and say it's worth it if he could return ~1 day sooner, though you have to weigh that vs doing other treatments with less risks (or just spending those resources on other things).

It is what it is, and I don't really see this changing with athletes anytime soon. Maybe I would make the same decisions if I was in their shoes. But it's still frustrating to watch, especially as a skeptic.

 

I think part of it also is ... Eastern medicine is not widely accepted in the US because it does not follow the scientific method with research based findings. Maybe it helps or maybe like posted said before it is just the placebo effect.

I find what people knew worked before science proved it stories intriguing. Aborigines people would put a towel on an ant bed, stir up the ants so they would crawl on the towel, shake them off the towel, then use the towel on a open wound. Come to find out, ants secret an antibiotic on their shells to keep the mound disease free. Who the f'ck would have ever thought to throw a towel on some ants?

 

Eastern "medicine" is not accepted because it's not medicine. If it was, it would just be called medicine. There are plenty of contributions to medicine from the "East." When it comes to medicine, it doesn't really matter where it came from. If it works, it works. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

We don't really have Western and Eastern physics, astronomy, chemistry, etc. But. probably due to some genius PR work, we have things like "Eastern Medicine" (or "Alternative Medicine") for things that don't actually work, but people still want to con others into paying for those services. It's much easier to assume that's the case than this is some kinda magical thing that can't be replicated with basic research. And unlike some of these fantastical treatments (in theory), there's not really anything magical about basic research. Generally speaking, if basic research concludes no benefits, I don't think that means the benefits exist but can't be found with research. I assume the benefits don't exist. Barring something like researching crazy quantum physics (where the act of observation interferes with the subject being studied), effectiveness and outcomes of treatments should be easy to research for pretty much anything.

I do agree that it is interesting to study how various cultures and people treat various conditions. As you point out, some of these treatments can result in legit benefits. I'm not super familiar with these ants, but presumably research has been performed and there are provable benefits to this antibiotic. It is possible researchers have isolated what produced these effects, and we might actually have a more traditional form of this treatment (via a pill or something). All of these medical treatments had to come from somewhere. It's not like they naturally come in an easy-to-swallow pill form.

And actually, stories like that are kinda what annoys me about things like cupping. Despite what some people might think, this treatment has been thoroughly studied. I would guess millions of dollars (and no telling how many hours) have been spent researching its effectiveness. It *should* be an open-and-shut case at this point. But because people keep using and promoting it, more research will be performed ("Maybe we missed something?"). More money wasted on researching cupping instead of maybe researching that next hidden treatment for cancer (or whatever).

 

I find it funny how people always tend to reject things that work for other people and almost put them down for doing what works for them.

It's not scientific, it's not medicine... blah blah blah. It makes them feel better or they wouldn't do it. If it works for him and has worked for others for thousands of years then I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss. Let people live their own lives without your judgement. More power to them.

I've had acupuncture and cupping. My back felt better afterward than before. I'll take Eastern Medicine (or pseudo science) over another pill that may relieve my pain temporary, but does nothing to cure the underlying issues AND comes with a whole list of other side effects.

Spoiler

List of side effects and potential side effects for Naproxen a common western medicine pill given for back pain
• Belching
• bruising
• difficult or labored breathing
• feeling of indigestion
• headache
• itching skin
• large, flat, blue, or purplish patches in the skin
• pain in the chest below the breastbone
• skin eruptions
• stomach pain
• swelling
• tightness in the chest
• Bloating
• bloody or black, tarry stools
• blurred or loss of vision
• burning upper abdominal or stomach pain
• cloudy urine
• constipation
• decrease in urine output or decrease in urine-concentrating ability
• disturbed color perception
• double vision
• fast, irregular, pounding, or racing heartbeat or pulse
• halos around lights
• indigestion
• loss of appetite
• nausea or vomiting
• night blindness
• overbright appearance of lights
• pale skin
• pinpoint red or purple spots on the skin
• severe and continuing nausea
• severe stomach burning, cramping, or pain
• skin rash
• swelling or inflammation of the mouth
• troubled breathing with exertion
• tunnel vision
• unusual bleeding or bruising
• unusual tiredness or weakness
• vomiting of material that looks like coffee grounds
• weight loss
• Anxiety
• back or leg pains
• bleeding gums
• blindness
• blistering, peeling, or loosening of the skin
• blood in the urine or stools
• blue lips and fingernails
• canker sores
• change in the ability to see colors, especially blue or yellow
• chest pain or discomfort
• clay-colored stools
• cold sweats
• coma
• confusion
• cool, pale skin
• cough or hoarseness
• coughing that sometimes produces a pink frothy sputum
• cracks in the skin
• darkened urine
• decreased vision
• depression
• diarrhea
• difficult, burning, or painful urination
• difficult, fast, or noisy breathing
• difficulty with swallowing
• dilated neck veins
• dizziness
• dry cough
• dry mouth
• early appearance of redness, or swelling of the skin
• excess air or gas in the stomach
• extreme fatigue
• eye pain
• fainting
• fever with or without chills
• fluid-filled skin blisters
• flushed, dry skin
• frequent urination
• fruit-like breath odor
• greatly decreased frequency of urination or amount of urine
• hair loss
• high fever
• hives
• increased hunger
• increased sensitivity of the skin to sunlight
• increased sweating
• increased thirst
• increased urination
• increased volume of pale, dilute urine
• irregular breathing
• joint or muscle pain
• large, hive-like swelling on the face, eyelids, lips, tongue, throat, hands, legs, feet, or sex organs
• lateappearance of rash with or without weeping blisters that become crusted, especially in sun-exposed areas of skin, may extend to unexposed areas
• light-colored stools
• lightheadedness
• loss of heat from the body
• lower back or side pain
• nervousness
• nightmares
• no blood pressure
• no breathing
• no pulse
• nosebleeds
• numbness or tingling in the hands, feet, or lips
• pain in the ankles or knees
• pain or burning in the throat
• pain or discomfort in the arms, jaw, back, or neck
• painful, red lumps under the skin, mostly on the legs
• pains in the stomach, side, or abdomen, possibly radiating to the back
• pale or blue lips, fingernails, or skin
• pounding in the ears
• puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue
• rapid, shallow breathing
• red, irritated eyes
• red skin lesions, often with a purple center
• red-green color blindness
• redness or other discoloration of the skin
• redness, swelling, or soreness of the tongue
• scaly skin
• seizures
• severe sunburn
• shakiness
• skin thinness
• slurred speech
• sneezing
• sore throat
• sores, ulcers, or white spots on the lips or tongue or inside the mouth
• sores, welting, or blisters
• spots on your skin resembling a blister or pimple
• stiff neck or back
• stomach craps or tenderness
• stomach upse
• swelling in the legs and ankles
• swelling of the face, fingers, feet, or lower legs
• swollen, painful, or tender lymph glands in the neck, armpit, or groin
• tiny bumps on the inner lining of the eyelid
• unexplained weight loss
• unpleasant breath odor
• watery or bloody diarrhea
• weakness or heaviness of the legs
• weight gain
• yellow eyes or skin
[\spoiler]

 

The correct response to something like back pain is not EITHER of those. You shouldn't rely on homeopathic BS but you also shouldn't just pop a pill.

The correct response is to actually treat the underlying condition by using scientifically studied methods. In some cases that might mean surgery, but most of the time you can actually use physical therapy (exercises, stretching, improved posture, less sitting down, etc) to correct whatever is causing your pain.

Most of this Eastern medicine stuff has no evidence that it does anything more than a placebo effect. It's no more effective than taking a pill capsule with some Kool-aid in it would be. Your mind is just tricking you into feeling better temporarily. You're not actually treating the underlying cause at all.

 

Lol you’re being melodramatic. Millions have not been spent disproving cupping treatment especially at the expense of cancer treatment. That’s just not how funding for research works. It’s okay if you don’t believe in “Eastern” medicine, I don’t have an opinion on the issue. But you sound petty and argumentative for the sake of arguing. Get over yourself.

 

I admit to being a bit dramatic, if only to draw attention to the fact that there is harm to things like cupping, even though people think they're pretty much harmless. Ignoring the potential "botched" jobs, their continued use does result in extra resources going into studying these treatments.

Having said that, while I was just guessing at that number, I don't think I'm actually that far off. RCTs are *really* expensive, which makes sense if you think about it (given the need for large sample sizes, lots of controls, lengthy trial periods, etc.). I don't think you can really have an reliable "average" cost for a RCT given all the different variables, but one document I found regarding low-cost RCTs pointed this out:
http://coalition4evidence.org/wp-co...rogram-Evaluations-on-a-Budget-March-2012.pdf

It seems reasonable that if you have decent number of RCTs covering a certain topic, you'd end up with millions of dollars spent. And that ignores all other types of research/system reviews/etc.

Having said that, I will admit that it appears a large number of studies for cupping (including RCTs) seem to have taken place in China/Asia, so it's possible they're cheaper to perform there. Still, I see plenty of system reviews that cover 8, 10, or as many as 135 RCTs for cupping (I can provide links to each if people want). That's a lot, and it actually seems to be increasing in number to be honest (probably thanks to athletes using it in recent years).

Does it really seem that unreasonable to assume millions of dollars spent researching cupping? I'm pretty sure it costs millions of dollars to research pretty much anything, so I don't think it should be that surprising.

As for money going to cupping instead of cancer research, yeah that's probably not *exactly* accurate, though I'm sure it can impact that a little bit. What's probably more likely is that cupping is receiving those research dollars that could be spent towards actual legit treatments for injuries that athletes sustain.


Apologies to anyone if I come across as petty, aggressive, or whatever. If it's not apparent, I'm pretty passionate about science-based/evidence-based medicine, especially when it comes to refuting pseudoscience. Chiropractic, acupuncture, fad diets/supplements, magnetic bracelets, homeopathy, etc. drive me as crazy as a 21ft jump shot.

 

I noticed that. It’s actually very effective

 

When there’s a sham-controlled trial or cupping vs. placebo I’ll believe it. Until then, it’s just a disfiguring placebo. If it had evidence behind it - just a little - there would be cupping salons everywhere.

 

Can you point me to some of the results to the study where it shows it doesn't work?

What does it actually measure, what was the outcome?

 

What do you mean "it doesn't mean it works"? I lot of Western medicine doesn't work for everybody either. Air cupping is very effective for improving blood circulations to reduce stiffness and certain types of pains. My mom has been using it for years.

 

I mean it doesn’t mean that the positive results are caused by the treatment. As with acupuncture there may be some brief, temporary relief from pain or stiffness. Is that proof it “works” as advertised, beyond what a massage would give you?

Like I said, if there’s no risk and he wants to try it because he thinks there’s a chance it works, I don’t have a problem with it. I just don’t think athletes doing it makes the practice any more credible.

 

Ok, i see we have doctors in the house, was wondering what those circles were.....

 

Can I use a vacuum cleaner and accomplish the same results?

 

Once upon a time western science considered acupuncture and snake oil to be pseudo science. And don't discount the power of placebos.

Medicine does not cure, it assists the body to cure itself. The placebo effect is real because the body is convinced that the medicine is real and so it repairs itself. Athletes especially are on the cutting edge of both medicine and placebo advancement.

 

Cutting edge of placebo advancement ... lol.

 

when you have millions of dollars, you can rely on whatever treatment modalities you want to heal your body.