I disagree that they had a "miles better" roster. The may have had a better roster, but not by that much. People tend to throw around parker and ginobli as if they were still HOF level impact guys. They are not. They are decent role players. As far as green, deadmon, mills being much better than ariza, Gordon, Williams, I don't see a giant gap. As far as lma, he is another guy where his reputation precedes him. He hasn't been all star caliber with the Spurs and he was pretty awful in that series. Obviously, you are right about pop and the rings, but I'm not sure I want to use that to say there was a huge gap between the two teams last year. I think arguments could be made that some other players in the league could have carried the rockets like harden did, it's difficult to prove either way, and it's certainly a subjective question. It was a competitive series between two fairly evenly matched teams (in my opinion.) An argument could be made that if harden doesn't collapse in game 5 we go on to win the series. That doesn't mean I don't think harden got us to where we were, but he deserves blame for those two losses. That's why I voted Paul as the leader. I haven't even seen Paul no show for a game. I've seen his team choke, but those are two entirely different things.
hey nothings stopping you from thinking LMA, Danny Green, Pau Gasol, Parker, Lee, Mills, Simmons, Ginobli, Dedmon "may be better" than Ariza, Capela, P Bev, Ego, Williams, Dekker, Harrell, Nene but fact is rockets lost to a much better spurs team. better all around. championship level roster, championship level coach, championship level defense. it actually is, if lebron with love and kyrie in the east only made it to 5th seed overall or 51 wins, how can he carry the rockets roster by himself to 54 wins in the west? so all this time CP3 get bumped out in the 1st or 2nd round, its always the people around CP3's fault never his and I guess you didn't watch the clips on this years' playoffs as well
God. When Ryno makes a 3 at Toyota Center, he points to the sky. When Harden drains a jumper for a game-clinching series against the Warriors, he will point to the sky. When the Rockets get Lebron James, we will point to God.
The problem here is that you are elevating some of these players based on name alone. Let's go position by position. Parker == Bev, Danny Green == Ariza, Harden > Leonard, Gasol > Anderson, LMA > Capela, Ego/Williams > Mills, Dekker/Williams/Ego < Simmons/Ginobili/Murray, Nene > Deadmon I know you are going to say, "well if you put those players in the Spurs system, with the championship pedigree, and the defense, then they are elevated more over the Rockets players". That may be true, but the talent level between the players was not large. The culture difference is pretty big, but it is the responsibility of franchise players to bring a defensive minded, championship culture to a team, Harden hasn't. As far as the systems go, the Rockets' system was the reason why they were able to win so many games. You can't act like if last year's team switched over to the Spurs system, they would have won as many games and even been in the position they were. Again, you are massively undervaluing the Rockets' system, and how it utilized all of it's role players so perfectly. LeBron or KD would have been in completely different roles if they were trying to take the place of Harden on this team. You can't tell me Lebron couldn't have run the P&R as effectively as Harden did last year. Of course he could have, KD could have too, and both of those players would have had significantly better 3PT %, and gotten to the line at a similar rate. The Cavs and Warriors records are irrelevant. Those two would have had significantly different roles, and would have had the system specifically tailored to them, and their teammates, just like Harden did. I've seen CP3 and the Clippers come up short in the playoffs. Speaking specifically about CP3 though, it was NEVER a question of effort. CP3 has never had playoff games where he didn't show up, for an entire game.
you must really hate harden for ignoring the fact that he single handedly carried the rockets to 3rd seed overall. at the beginning of the season, everyone was expecting this team to be 6th seed at best. But harden beasted as a point god. LOL what did MDA's system do in LA, NYK, and Philly? that was all Harden because unlike Nash, Harden didn't have players who were comparabe to Joe Johnson, Amare, Matrix, Raja Bell, Diaw, Barbossa, etc.. And the Cavs coach and team mates were stopping Lebron from milking the PnR all the way to 63 wins in the East? Or it was simply physically impossible for him? how many games did he rest? if with the rockets he didn't have irving and love and he had to play double the games agaisnt western teams how many more games would he have rested? 10 pts 7 assists while your teammates are shooting at a dysmal 30% in an elimination game against a superior team (1-3, 6 more wins, spurs, pops, multi superstars & allstars) = disappeared by himself while coach & teammates absolutely cannot be blamed 13 pts 9 assists while your teammates are shooting at a decent 48% in an elimination against an inferior team (3-1, young team, first time the play offs in how many years?) = showed up and effort NEVER questioned but coach & teammates surely choked
You don't have facts anywhere in your argument, you can't really use that as a good reason not to defend your own view, which is statistically incorrect in the first place. Do you have any data suggesting that Chris Paul has gotten out of the 1st round more than Harden has? If not, you're talking out of your ass.
1. The weren't a superior team. 2. You aren't being honest about Harden's game 6 performance, at all.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The argument was never about who got out of the first round more. Do yourself a favor and read, so you have the full context of a discussion before you jump in.
Dude, you are obviously intelligent, but cmon! This wasn't Dan Tony's system more than it was Moreyball. Morey tailored the system perfectly for Harden and all of the players around him. He did so better than any other GM in the league, and it isn't close. He would have been able to do the same for players like Lebron or KD.
you know superior team means clearly better team right? you deny that the Spurs are clearly better team than the Rockets? you deny that the Spurs beat the rockets fair & square 3 to 1 during the season, won 6 more games, had home court advantage, HOF Pop is on a diff level than MDA, and Kawhi had a better cast of mulitple stars/all stars with multiple rings compared to harden's cast making spurs a clearly better team than the rockets? which part/s here is a lie: 10 pts 7 assists while your teammates are shooting at a dysmal 30% in an elimination game against a clearly better team (1-3, 6 more wins, spurs, pops, multi superstars & allstars)
so which non superstars/role players at the level of pbev, ariza, ryno, capela would Morey realistically have put around Lebron that the rockets could still have been 3rd seed in the west or won 55 games or better? and how may games do you think Lebron would have rested during the season while still muster 55 wins or better? and how many games did Durant sat out last year? you think Morey's system would have made Durant play 82 games?
So, you post complete bullshit, then you double down when someone calls you out? Oh well, you have a long history of not understand the arguments you are a part of.
I don't think you get our point. Harden shares blame but we understand you can find a game like that for plenty of superstars. Now the difference is most of these players went on to win championships so of course no one remembers those games anymore. Thruth is leadership means crap in this era of super teams. You need talent and Paul needs Harden just as much James needs him.
While Tucker and Gordon liquor up ,Gordon gladly ask him :"Do you know who is the boss in rockets?" Tucker :"Boss is cp3!" Gordon :"NO!" Tucker:"must be HARDEN!" Gordon:"Wrong!" Tucker:"Maby Nene?" Gordon angry:"NONONO¡_¡_" Tucker:"is it possible that I am the boss?" Gordon fall in a faint.
Like I said before, YOU aren't understanding the argument. We were talking about the game 6 collapse vs. the clippers comeback. Then we were talking about the Spurs roster, and you come in out of left field telling me I have no stats proving who got out of the first round more often, therefore I must be talking out of my ass?? Before your next post, I encourage you to go read everything between @vlaurelio and I that was posted before you barged in, then read everything after. Then, tell me where stats about who got out of the first round more often would be relevant to what we were discussing. Thank You.
I get that. I just never remember Paul having "effort" questions. Hence, I voted for him in the poll.
lost in Game 7 at home against an inferior inexperienced team with 0 points in the 4th quarter. 2 points on 1/9 FG, 4 ast to 2 TOs in 2nd half. did he quit or ran out of gas/exhausted/fatigued/physically limited franchise player asked to be traded to play with james harden did he quit or ran out of gas/exhausted/fatigued/physically limited
