[U.S.A.] We're not #1 - are the good days gone forever?

more jobs. better high end education. less taxes.

 

Rather than fixate on the "We're not #1" in the title, the salient point the Thadeus is trying to make, from where I sit, is that we are declining in numerous ways as a nation relative to what our country has become accustomed to during the post-WWII generations, and they are multiple generations now. We are. That's an undeniable fact. Actually read the statistics he posted, and if you like, ponder this:

When I was in high school, a typical American family could still be supported comfortably by one wage earner, almost always the husband, while the wife stayed at home with the children. Those children could look forward to a higher standard of living than their parents had, just as those parents became middle class in the aftermath of WWII, something their own parents, in most cases, could only dream of. With time, it became a widespread phenomenon that the children were placed in daycare if a relative wasn't available to help out. So that both parents could work, and both maintain and increase the standard of living they grew up in. Then that became more difficult. We see large numbers of college graduates, often with huge debts from going to those colleges, having to live with their parents. If they find a job, having to rent, or buy a home that doesn't approach the one they grew up in.

We've all seen this happening. It is a declining standard of living. Dress it up, put whatever spin on it that you wish, but that's what it is. Wealth is increasingly concentrated among the wealthy. CEO's make several times more compared to their employees, if compared to wages in the '50's, '60's, 70's, '80's, and so on. It's just a fact. How did that happen? Taxes were slashed on the top wage earners to far below levels during the Reagan administration. "Greed is good!" became more than a line in a movie, and those with the most power took advantage, and so became more powerful.

How can anyone pretend that this hasn't been going on for years? And it isn't because Capitalism is evil, but rather that the system was deliberately broken by the elite and those they elected.

 

source?

 

his ass

 

Well, then, the titile is indeed misleading. Things are not going well, that's obvious.

How to fix this country? Short term wise, you've got Dodd-Frank, Obama-care, repositioning of military strategy, counter to the rise of China, all that. These are the tweaking to find new balancing and re-define status quo. That's all fine. However, there gotta be some change more fundamental than those. Long term vision is important. Education, productive workforce, better training for the young. That is not all government's job. Cuture is part of the problem. If you go to China and India, you will see young people there working their butts off to get better. How many kids here are really trying hard to going to a night school for some extra training on their own? That is a norm in China and India. Wealth has been building in this country for a long time, and it's natural for the next generation to live off the wealth of their parents. That's a nautral patten throughout the history. One thing the US has an edge over all other countries is the immigration policy. But if that is somehow short changed by chick little politicans that only have a nearsight vision, this country will even be in greater trouble. The new immigrants keep the competition going, keep the blood running because unlilke those who have been here for several generations, they are entitled to nothing. The bright minds in Washington are probably all clear on that.

 

Just watched Jinro's dream of Sushi. Inspiring. Ask yourself what you should do to help this country. Have you worked hard and tried to get better eveyday? It starts with you and I.

 

This is such nonsense -- things are better than they have ever been -- we still have a very long way to go before the collapse of the US.

Imagine the 1930's for perspective -- if that wasn't the end of the world our current situation is literally nothing in comparison.

 

seriously?

How many universities do you know of in Sweden and Denmark?

number of jobs? well that one is obvious. Here is the employment rate and here is the population.

taxes? Here you go. There is a reason no jobs exist in these countries. Taxes too high.

Most of this is common sense. Obviously we have more jobs and educate more people than Sweden or Denmark.

 

I don't know if you're just being intentionally obtuse at this point, but a higher employment rate is better.

Employment Rate

1 1 Switzerland 78.6 2010 OECD [4].
2 2 Iceland 78.2 2010 OECD [5].
3 3 Norway 75.3 2010 OECD [6].
4 4 Netherlands 74.7 2010 OECD [7].
5 5 Denmark 73.4 2010 OECD [8].
6 6 New Zealand 73.3 2010 OECD [9].
7 7 Sweden 72.7 2010 OECD [10].
8 8 Australia 72.4 2010 OECD [11].
9 9 Austria 71.7 2010 OECD [12].
10 10 Canada 71.5 2010 OECD [13].
12 11 Germany 71.1 2010 OECD [14].
11 11 Japan 71.1 2010 OECD [15].
12 12 United Kingdom 69.5 2010 OECD [16].
15 15 Finland 68.1 2010 OECD [17].
13 13 Russia 67.4 2010 OECD [18].
16 16 United States 66.7 2010 OECD [19].

Way to put "there are more jobs" because the US has about 35x the population of Sweden. It's like making such a profoundly empty statement as saying there are more jobs in India and China then America. Are you also going to put that America is better because there are more people?

Also, higher education in Sweden and Denmark are free. And while you might not have heard of universities in the area (which would be fitting), the Karolinska Institute, for example, is ranked 20th in the world for medicine (http://www.topuniversities.com/univ...ct-rankings/life-science-biomedicine/medicine) above Cornell, NYU, Brown, and Tufts. a) It's free. b) It's being supported by a nation of 9 million, and not 310 million.

Furthermore, Sweden and Denmark are rated AAA on their public finances. They have some of the lowest debt-to-GDP ratios in the developed world.

Your argumentation is lamentable. If you think America is #1 rar rar rar, then so be it, but don't start denigrating other nations.

 

Having visited less-developed nations like Burma/Myanamar, Angola, and Bangladesh, I wouldn't say we're at that level just yet. In addition to dozens of books I've read over our rising income equality and what not, most of my anecdotal evidence confirms middle class America has been heading in the wrong direction for quite some time now. When going to real world-class countries like Japan and Norway, I was tempted to throw in the towel, and say our problems with education, infrastructure, employment, and healthcare were insurmountable. Coming back home for a road trip didn't help this despondency.

When traveling through 'real' America in cities like Wichita, Dayton, Peoria, Gainesville, and Tucson, you get a very sobering glimpse of a nation that is rarely shown in the media. Go to the Wal-Marts, Waffle Houses, gas stations, churches, and high schools in any of these places. It feels like a different country (people's beliefs, their speech, their attire, their cars) compared to the Pacific Northwest, Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles. It wasn't the usual rural:urban culture shock, but instead how I felt when reading reports of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina that there were two kinds of Americas.

I try my best to convey how dire the situation has become to friends and family, but few listen; most simply downplay or dismiss it, blame it on Obama, or think it has nothing to do with them (no unity with fellow Americans, every income bracket for itself!). Since everyone in my social circle is well-educated, employed, and living in major metropolitan areas, life is very good for them. It will take a gargantuan, coordinated, and bipartisan media bombardment to get the message out and offer solutions.

If you want change, it has to start with getting people to respect the civic process and government again. We need more people to engage politically so that we vote the kind of leadership into office that won't kowtow to corporate interests at the expense of our middle class. Fixing the public education system would be help immensely as would campaign finance reform, stopping gerrymandering, eliminating the Senate filibuster, line-item vetos for the POTUS, etc.

 

I disagree with some of the 'unraveling' numbers here. It took decades and even longer for all the above to decline, not just a few years.

Portuguese - about 50 years since the 1580 succession crisis so that by the late 16th century, their empire was in decline.

USSR - about 15 years, starting with the middle of Brezhnev's reign due to the oil crises and more.

Ottoman - 200+ years. From the Battle of Vienna till WW1.

America's history as a global power is pitifully small compared to the old empires. When reading history, you always look in roughly 25-year periods to better understand socioeconomic changes.

My rough timeline of America since WW2:
[1945-1975] The Golden Years for the middle class.
[1975-2001] Beginning of decline. Rise of the corporate state, special interests, lobbying, etc.
[2001-2025] The era made by and for the educated, global, jet-setting elites.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF_iorX_MAw

 

I said 'more jobs'. That's why I threw in the population of each too. So one could simply do the math.

As a matter of serving humanity, the number of private sector jobs is relevant.

 

I don't think the system is deliberately broken by the elites
I think it *is* the system
Capitalism is about maximizing your personal wealth

Capitalism is an econmic system and a mindset
It is not about innovation . . it is not about fair. . . it is not about improvement
It is about exchanging goods at the best rate possible

what is happening . . is inevitable .. . . in a unregulated capitalistic society
Where companies see fighting innovation is more cost effective than R&D.
Where companies see importing or exporting jobs is more cost effective than hiring native.
Where companies see using inferior materials is more cost effective.

They drive down cost. . . while maintaining if not increasing profits.
Considering the idea is that every company should increase profits every year
not make a profit .. . not maintain a profit .. but increase their proffit margins
it has to reach a point where quality will suffer for increased profitablity

until we see Capitalism for what it is . .. . it will be our blind spot
it is an amazing system to start a nation . . . just reaches a critical mass point
where the benefits don't outweigh the costs.
I think America is at that point.

Rocket River

 

The money needed to get into politics. . . esp big time politics is a barrier.
Alot of the people you saw on your trip . . . have little hope of change
they become embittered and angry.

They think the urban elite look down on them and think they are stupid
primarily because the urban elite look down on them and think they are stupid
People say they have the right to vote for someone to represent them
but that is bull****
You cannot say . . . You can have A or B . .. when I want C . . .
then when A or B is in office tell me. . WELL YOU PICKED HIM
Did I really have a true 'choice'?

For all people's belly aching about people voting and Being heard
neither liberal nor conservative
Democrat or republican
want THE PEOPLE's voice truly heard
They have a vested interest in dictating to the people
rather than listening
Molding public perception through misleading misinforming media

It is kind of disgusting

Rocket River

 

lol, hard to get egg off your face ain't it? :grin:

 

what egg? I pretty much single handedly ended this conversation to the point where the OP had to devolve his position to 'things are bad these days' (how enlightening).

 

Right, and like I said---

Is China #1 and India #2 in the world based on your logic? I heard they provide a lot of jobs. Do the quality matter too, or are you just looking at quantity?

---The best country in the world---the one with the most people in it! PRC! PRC!

 

Good post