Quickley is a mediocre player with a terrible contract Turner is good but his best days are behind him and he's overpaid Portis is a straight up bad player NAW and Okongwu are the only players you mentioned worth trading for but it's nullified by trading a bunch of premium assets for bad contracts and mid. And Okongwu might not even be a viable starter.
To me, he's no different than Duren for the Pistons or Chet for the Thunder, or Reeves for the Lakers. He may not be the top guy on offense, but he's a huge part of the identity of the team and should remain so.
We moved a pick and got back one. You guys make a trade that makes us better offensively, defensively and younger. You guys are way overrating the return we are going to get for Sengun and Durant. Virtually everybody on our new team is a current starter other than Reed. You build around a superstar like Amen, not 38 year old cancer, and a Sabonis clone.
I'll give you credit for gettting rid of Durant and Sengun in one fell swoop. This definitely would be a timeline reset. And we'd get to build around Reed/Amen/Jabari. **** it, it might be more fun than watching this team?
I liked the thread premise. Didn’t read other responses yet. I do lean toward building around Amen. Need shooting 5. Maybe Smith in 1-2 years/backup being CC or Adams is fine. Smith at 4/Eason Durant/Need upgrade to DFS Reed/Okogie Amen/Need 38% on the 3 ball here along with ability to generate some shots for himself or teammates.
I don't know how realistic any huge massive trade like this would be, but I do agree with the general concept at work here, and I do like the fits on NAW, Turner, and Okongwu. (Not sure about Quickley when we already have Reed on the roster, who seems like he might be a better player with a similar archetype.)
If the idea is to surround Amen with shooters, getting rid of literally the most efficient shooter in league history is kinda .... not so good. If you want to trade Sengun, that's fine but get something in return that fits the timeline instead of a guy who's over the hills and far away. He may have been a good target a few years ago but not today ..... Maybe find a way to pry Kel'el Ware out of Miami .... or some other young bug who has potential.
This. If Amen isn't good enough to play with Durant, Amen isn't good enough. I like Amen, but not enough to gut the team and make him a heliocentric player.
I think Amen can play with Durant, but Durant will be 38 and is a space killer by spamming iso middies.
The issue isn't anyone's fit with KD. The issue is that with his age and the minutes load Udoka has been playing him, KD will be lucky to even make it through this year's playoffs without a serious, possibly career-ending injury, let alone next year's.
Amen is headed into his 4th season. Setting up a trade to remove Durant, calling Durant a space killer is basically saying Amen is not good enough next season, which would be Amen's 4th season. Adding about $18M in salary in the year when Amen's extension hits is saying Amen isn't likely good enough to win in the next three years. I haven't seen Atlanta much this year, but acquiring NAW is likely not worth all those other contracts being on the books.
Giving KD the John Wall treatment by sending him home for the next 2 seasons and eating his money would be better than making this trade. Adding 4 contracts significantly worse than what's left on DFS's is not the answer. (edit: I probably should say 3 as I haven't seen much of Atlanta this year for Okongwu. The point still stands that this trade kills the Rockets' flexibility over the next 2 seasons and the Rockets end up without Sengun or picks/.player worth dealing him)
I think this is incredibly extreme and pessimistic. I gather you think Stone(Udoka) is awful at Roster management? I think multiple trades could put the Rockets into "True Contender" status next season - although I don't know if this offseason is the right time. I expect the Rockets to "Run it Back" with minor tweeks next season before pivoting in 27/28 offseasons.
I advocated trading for Adebayo last year, but that is a non-starter from Miami's perspective. I don't think Miami would trade Ware for Sengun straight up even if the salaries matched. Our best bets on returns for Sengun are mid-level players or expirings and draft pick(s). I'm not advocating for dumping Sengun. I wouldn't trade him without a substantial return. Of course, I think a substantial return would be a top 4 pick in this draft. You might get a taker from a team willing to gamble before the lottery. After it's held, I'm not sure any of them would trade the pick.
Hmm, of those contracts, I would say NAW's is team-friendly, Okongwu's is fair to slightly team-friendly, Portis is basically fair value, Turner's is somewhat bad, and Quickley's is really bad. I think if you got Quickley out of this deal and somehow replaced him with somebody worth the money or even just an expiring contract this would be fine. In any case, with all due respect to @Hemingway , I don't think a massive four-team trade like this is likely to happen. I do feel like from the perspective of us as fans right now it's an interesting starting point for what the conceptual framework should be moving forward, and I do like the basic idea here of adding a lot of shooting, especially at the 5 spot. All of these specific players though, I mean who knows what would actually happen if we tried to trade both KD and Sengun this offseason. It would more likely be structured as two separate trades.
I think you are correct on what the Rockets will do. We will run it back or trade for Giannis (which would be disastrous). One problem we need to consider is the value of the picks decreasing as we move along. Both the Nets and Dallas could get a top pick this year and have tons of cap space next year. The 27 Phoenix pick might still be worth something, but the more likely bet is that it is in the 10-15 range. Sometimes, you just have to admit mistakes and move on. I think they should trade Durant to get off his contract and because of fit. It would be a problem though if you got a similar albatross contract in return. I think they should trade Sengun if they can get a top pick in this year's draft or several really good trade assets. I don't see a trade out there for a young guy that would be worth it and is available. So we need to pray he develops a shot. Maybe we can fleece a dumb org like the Pelicans.
I had counted Okongwu as bad. I probably shouldn't have. NAW is appropriately paid. I would not say team-friendly. I would have no issue signing NAW or Okongwu. Having to pay their salaries and trading a valuable young player for them is just not a smart move. Turner (13th worst according to spotrac), Portis, and Quickley (12th worst) contracts are bad to very bad. I would not want Okongwu at his salary with these 3 players even if signing outright. On a speculated KD trade, I doubt it involves having $105M in salary coming back in the year Amen's extension hits, NAW is the best player coming back, the Rockets don't add a FRP, and lose Sengun as well. If the Rockets can't get expiring deals and at least 1 FRP for KD, just ride it out even if one thinks KD will be hurt the rest of his career. On a Sengun trade, my opinion has dropped a lot this season. My opinion has not dropped enough that I would jettison him so the Rockets can make their financial situation worse without adding a pick.
I respect you basketball knowledge, just don't agree with your assessment of FVV, Amen, and Durant and I don't think either of us will change the other's mind, so I'll step back now. This is not directed at you, but one thing that disappoints me on Clutchfans, is all the guys that jump in and trash trade ideas while still b****ing about the roster and won't put any effort into a decent counter argument or their version of a solution. At least, I put my ideas out there and take the beating from the haters and only fans. Forums like this are for debate, but it seems the only enjoyment some guys get is calling others stupid. I think we have our superstar to build around. Others don't, but what value is it to just trash Stone and regurgitate his past mistakes.
