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Ready The Clown Car: The First Batch of Democrats Are Ready To Announce Their 2020 Bids

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MojoMan, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I have given consideration to that, especially with regards to Sanders, Warren, Gabbard and Williamson, and to a lesser degree Biden.

    With regards to Booker and Harris, not to mention Beto or Gillibrand, someone is going to have to explain to me what their point of 'resonance' with voters has actually been, because it looks like they really do not have any substantial 'resonance' to speak of. Which is obviously no small part of the reason why all four of these people are out of the race before the first vote has even been cast.
     
  2. Jayzers_100

    Jayzers_100 Member

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    This speech by Cory Booker over 10 years ago to a college graduating class is perhaps one of the most well-delivered speeches I've heard in my entire life. I was hooked as soon as I found it. I think he is more eloquent than Obama when he's focused. This isn't hyperbole, he also literally pulled out a woman from a burning building and purposefully moved into the projects while he was mayor of Newark. I think he has a very compelling background and is sincere as they come.

    His weakness is that he tends to talk over people's heads and doesn't deliver enough zingers to create consistent campaign fodder. I seriously think he might be on a heavy adderall prescription or something. He'll ramble and you'll get lost in the sauce. I think he would be an excellent VP option and perhaps a leading man once the public acquires a taste for him.
     
  3. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    Those stories where not all from the democratic left and I was the one who told you they did not hold much water.

    I was proven correct.
     
  4. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Yeah, well, based on your own description in the second paragraph, he does not sound like a very compelling communicator to me.

    Maybe my expectations are just higher than yours, but being a good 'speechmaker' is not enough to qualify someone to be President of the United States, in my view. He needs to be a demonstrated leader, with a clear vision that is right for our country and some strength. As Obama showed, you can let the guy read everything off of a teleprompter, if that is what it comes down to. So the 'speechmaking' is not nearly as important in my view as it seems to be to you. Even though your second paragraph seems to undermine that argument with regards to Corey Booker pretty effectively.
     
  5. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Well, I was never convinced either, truth be told.
     
  6. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    I told you constantly that Harris and Booker had no real resonance but yet you kept saying they where leading candidates because of race and sex.

    Do you really think anybody has forgotten that?
     
  7. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member

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    So you were just trolling the libs right?

    I knew all along.
     
  8. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    They were being promoted as that and Harris climbed up to number 2 in the polls for a short while last June. The truth is most of the politicos following this race were surprised by how poorly Harris performed in this race. And her 'identity politics' credentials were certainly a large part of the reason why they expected her to do better.

    As far as Booker, he was a black man and a Senator running for President. So he got a significant amount of press and attention because of that. I am not sure how surprised these same people are that his candidacy has fizzled. But the only reason I was talking about it was because they were talking about it.

    But let me feed you some sugar here. Once we get past Iowa and New Hampshire, it appears likely that the competitors are going to be a bunch of white guys, mostly quite old and the other gay, and one old school-marm looking white woman. Are the Democrats supposed to be the party of the minorities? The party of "People of color" (meaning people who are not caucasion)? And there will very likely be NO non-caucasion candidates in this race after the second primary contest?

    There are likely to be a good many Democrat voters who are chaffed by this realization.
     
    #2368 MojoMan, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  9. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    I think a lot of these so-called "experts" are routinely and spectacularly wrong. Dependably so. So it does not surprise me to post their remarks and observations with the expectation and my own observations that they are mistaken and will very likely be quite wrong. And I have made observations to that effect in my posts as we have gone along.

    Is is "trolling" to disagree with the preferred Democrat left talking points around here? In the eyes of a number of posters, perhaps including you, it clearly is. Is it "trolling" to shake my head and correctly predict that these people are wrong, or likely to be wrong, and then to take some pleasure in confirming those predictions later? I do not think so.

    But again, if failure to submit and comply with the preferred Democrat left "narrative" is "trolling" in your view, then we will just have to agree to disagree on that point.
     
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  10. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  11. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Bye Spartacus ....
     
  12. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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  13. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't say a woman can't win, but I do think a female or minority candidate would be competing with a handicap. Conservatives have convinced themselves it's an asset because of the scores of voters who will vote for a woman just to get the first female president, but I don't believe it. Some people will choose to do that, but I don't think it makes up for the unconscious bias in others to indicators of power. Just like tall people have an edge, so will white people and male people and rich people and well-dressed people and self-confident people and attractive people.

    Don't know Bernie's feelings on it. I think Warren has a handicap being a woman. I think Bernie has a handicap being Jewish. Hard to tell which is the bigger handicap. But none of it has to do with ability. Just navigating the prejudices we know people have.
     
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  14. MojoMan

    MojoMan Member

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    Among the Democrats, it appears that women candidates have an advantage among many voters. With some of those Democrat voters, it appears to be a defining single issue. With others, it is one that they give weight to if the candidates are competitively close with regards to other factors. Still others do not care about that and just want whoever it is that represents them or the agenda they favor the best.

    For the vast majority of conservatives, they do not care what the gender of the candidate is and they just want whoever it is that represents them or the agenda they favor the best. We believe that our country is certainly ready for a woman president, if and when a woman arises who is a compelling person to fill that role, with NO consideration given to her gender at all.

    Margaret Thatcher is an excellent example of what this looks like. She was the British Conservative Prime Minister in the 1980's, as I am sure you recall. She was the PM because she was the strongest and most impressive political leader in that country and there was really no question about it. The reality is that female leaders of this caliber are extremely rare, certainly more rare than male leaders of this caliber. But when they do arise, they have a tendency to be truly extraordinary.

    If a conservative woman leader of this caliber were to appear for the Republicans in 2024, the Republican party will support her with great enthusiasm. The Democrats however, as we saw with the Hillary Clinton campaign in 2016, will advance woman candidates just because they are women, in an expectation that this has some sort of "identity politics" based marketing appeal. It is an incredibly foolish way to pick and choose political leaders.

    The Democrats should stop doing that. Sadly, they do not appear likely to do so any time soon.
     
  15. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    there's an awful lot of threads this could go in today. hope I picked the right one!

     
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  16. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    It just so happens that a compelling formula for leadership has been so elusive for women that never has the Republican party ever had a female nominee win even one state in a primary, and still the most successful woman in Republican presidential politics is the redoubtable Sarah Palin. If the Republican Party has gone on for 160 years, and assume they average 5 at-least-semi-serious candidates every 4 years -- that's 200 semi-serious candidates, all men except Margaret Chase Smith, Michele Bachmann, and Carly Fiorina. It must be very rare indeed if only 1.5% can even cross the very low bar of getting 5,000 votes in one state primary. And yet hundreds of men can do it. Nothing at all to do with the attitudes of the electorate. Surely the fault lands squarely on the female gender, which is either grossly inferior or else incredibly unlucky.

    And no examples from international conservatism either. The rest of the planet is so much more progressive than us in accepting female leadership it's sad. Even countries we scoff at for being chauvinist have somehow had a female head of state -- Central African Republic, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Burundi, Rwanda, Sri Lanka, Mozambique, on and on. What were the odds that so much female talent would be sprinkled overseas, and none of it right here in the US of A.
     
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  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Really? How many times has the issue of Sanders being a Jew been brought up?

    I'll take being a woman running in 2019 as a far larger handicap....... but can be convinced otherwise.
     
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  18. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Oh absolutely...... the conservatives have no concerns about a candidates gender.

    In fact society is general has absolutely no bias against women.

    You know how I know conservatives care about gender..........
     
  19. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I guess Sanders having his minions smearing Warren didn't quite go like he expected....
     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Jewishness or womanness doesn't ever need to be discussed to have an impact. And I doubt it could be measured in this context. If Sanders is the candidate, I'm sure Trump will say some pretty ridiculous and unintentionally funny stuff about Sanders' jewishness -- and probably his American bona fides as well. And of course the Jews Will Not Replace Us crowd will go nuts. Of course, if the candidate is Warren, the misogyny will be just as ridiculous.
     

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