OAK trades Amari Cooper to DAL for a 1st Round pick

Sure but don't understand how trading your "best" players is a fix for bungled picks in the past, especially if you're handing them right back over to the same guy.

This would be like Jacksonville trading Ramsey and Fournette to rebuild no?

 

Jacksonville was awesome last year and Ramsey and Fournette are awesome now (when healthy).

Oakland sucked last year and this year, and Amari Cooper sucked last year and this year, and he's owed a ton of money next year. This gets them a new cheap 1st round player and they can spend Cooper's money on another potentially good player. A rebuilding team has no use for an Amari Cooper or a $200MM Mack. Collect picks, start over. A first round pick from a mediocre Dallas team is amazing value for a guy who has averaged 50 yards a game this year and last.

 

Raiders' Belief In Derek Carr Has 'Deteriorated'

The Oakland Raiders were building their current era around Derek Carr, Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper. Since Jon Gruden became coach this offseason, the Raiders have since traded Mack and Cooper, while Carr's future is uncertain.

"The belief in him has deteriorated, perhaps to irreparable levels," writes Marcus Thompson. "Team sources describe a fractured relationship between Carr and his teammates, mostly because confidence in him has waned. It certainly didn’t help when film showed what looked like him crying after being sacked and injuring his arm. They saw his face. They heard his whimper. They witnessed him explain on the sidelines. They assuredly watched it again in film session. It’s hard to see how Carr can lead this team again.

"There are already rumblings about Carr being a sitting duck. If the whispers are accurate, the Raiders have already concluded that Carr is not the quarterback of the future and the question is how do they go about moving on. His game is marked by a mental fragility that doesn’t inspire confidence."​

 

Well Oakland was "awesome" the year before they traded Mack so let's just assume, for discussion purposes, that Jacksonville sucks (hopefully) the rest of the year and decided to rebuild. It would be nuts if they started things off by trading Ramsey like the Raiders did with Mack. Yes the contract situation doesn't make it apples to apples but at the end, you're trading your best player. As for Fournette, when healthy is the real key here. He's only played in 2 games this season but only averaged 35 ypg in those outings.

Guess a big difference is that Jax has had really good offseasons with the draft and FA. Like moes posted, outside of 3 good picks, the Raiders have been pretty awful in the draft so trading your best players for more picks for the same GM doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

 

So is this year's draft class supposed to be stacked? I know the NFL isn't as up and down as NBA draft class talent but just curious what the potential is with those three picks, was wondering if they should look to diversify and picks next year instead.

 

I think the key is whether you think the franchise is flawed or fixable. Jacksonville's problems seem to center around their diaster of a QB. Fix that and you might have an instant rebuild. I don't know enough about Oakland's roster, but they might not feel it was such a quick fix there. Also, I don't know Ramsey or Fournette's contract status, but the impetus to trade Mack is that a $200MM defensive player is almost never worth it, no matter how good they are. And it's especially a problem if you also have a high paid QB (Chicago doesn't for a few years so they can just reallocate the QB money to Mack).

 

This year's defensive line class is ridiculous. It's still early but the QB class isn't looking that strong, especially compared to the last 2 seasons. And 1st round WRs just haven't been all that productive.

 

Nah. They screwed themselves by over paying some over the hill vets a few years back.

They are now shipping off guys for 1st round picks. They stole a first rounder from Dallas. They are going to ship off Carr for some picks as well.

Then you walk in to free agency with cap space and the ability to live in Vegas.

Gruden sold the GM on a major rebuild and that is what you are seeing.

5 first rounders.

Gruden will be judged in the next three years.

If he hits on those picks then he is going to turn the franchise around.

This wouldn't be happening if Derek Carr did not lose his talent.

 

Oakland is just spinning its wheels. Who is Gruden exactly to remake a team in his image anyways? A first for Amari is a good trade, but that, coupled with the Mack deal, ultimately it just equates to spinning your wheels. That team has no identity, isn't heading towards building an identity, and I'm not sure the game didn't already pass Gruden by.

Amari is better than Dez Bryant, don't get me wrong, but from what I saw between Dez & Dak tells me not to expect much from Amari in Dallas numbers-wise.

 

Eh, Carr was never all that great in the first place. Oakland was so incredibly overrated and lucky when they made the playoffs a couple years ago and I am glad they got exposed as the frauds they are

 

The Raiders were good and Carr was playing extremely well.

Either way, figured out or not.

The Raiders drafting is what has screwed them the last decade.

Gruden will have his chance to pick the right guys.

 

This is dumb af. I also watched that man break his leg. Say on the spot it’s broken and take it like a champ. This is sensationalist journalism.

 

First of all, I hated the Mack trade. I think the Raiders didn't get enough of a return. 2 1st round picks yes, but at the cost of a 2nd on top of the deal in the 2020 draft. Khalil Mack was the greatest by far and probably the only truly great Raider since Gruden era 1 ended.

Mack is worth much more than Ramsey. An edge who can kill QBs and erase the run is the most valuable defensive player there is. A lockdown corner is nice, but he can only shut down so much of the field.

Also, nobody should be building around a RB they drafted high. An RB is not worth much these days because of shelf life. Barkley, Fournette, Zeke, McCaffrey... these are all great RBs in their own right, but in general the opportunity cost of a drafting an RB in the top 10 picks is ridiculously irresponsible. Fournette is a low shelf life player who is already crumbling due to injuries, prompting Jacksonville to add another RB in the middle of the season.

Think about it. A roster needs balance. You are basically forced to be good somewhere and average somewhere and bad somewhere in the NFL these days. You can't pay everyone. Seattle had to pay Russell Wilson a big contract and then their offensive line was horrific. They have had to try and completely rebuild on the fly through the draft. Their once great defense is now young and unproven. However, they can still find a way to compete because Russell Wilson is a very good QB.

You have to look at how Jacksonville and Oakland chose to spend their large amounts of cap space in the years leading up. Oakland chose to invest heavily in the offensive line, giving rich contracts to Kelechi Osemele and Rodney Hudson. For the first year, it worked very well. They were able to run the ball with Latavius Murray and control the line of scrimmage to set up the deep passing game. Jacksonville chose to invest heavily on the defensive side, giving big contracts to Malik Jackson and AJ Bouye and adding Calais Campbell.

Jacksonville does not have an offense that can win them games. They are forced to play outstanding defense to win games. They have very little talent on offense outside of the RB position. They are constructed to pound the run and let the defense win for them. When it doesn't work and Bortles is put in a position where he needs to score, the results are predictably disastrous.

The Raiders attempted to build a powerful offense by allocating cap money to OL and drafting a potential difference-making WR with a top 5 pick to give Carr the tools to be successful. So they need to focus the draft around building on top of Mack. The results were a complete and utter failure.

2015 2nd rounder: DE Mario Edwards Jr (Cut after training camp this year)
2016 1st rounder: FS Karl Joseph (Currently benched after 2 disappointing years)
2016 2nd rounder: DL Jihad Ward (Horrific reach of a pick most people didn't have him going until Day 3, traded to Dallas for peanuts last year)
2017 1st rounder: CB Gareon Conley (Has only been healthy for a couple games and was promptly benched)
2017 2nd rounder: SS Obi Melifonwu (Injured most of rookie year, then cut before training camp)

Not a single one of these players is even starting. The defense had to be completely replaced by street free agents.

What good is a defense with 1 superstar and 10 bums? Not a good defense.

Mack held out for a bigger contract and never once reported to the new regime. He leveraged the situation and ended up getting paid and out of a team that was going to be completely blown up. His agent knew what they wanted to do the whole time, he wanted out and the best way to do that was to demand more money than a rebuilding team could ever afford to pay. It is what it is. You get a couple of 1st rounders and you sacrifice the short-term for the bigger picture.

 

Word is they really loved Vander Esch. Which seems to be working out exceptional well. He is the second highest rated LB according to PFF.

Not willing to give up a first (but a second) for 29 year Safety who can come as a FA next year is different than give up a first for a 24 year old Wr.

 

That article may be sensationalist but it does underline a key point... Carr has for whatever reason looked completely scared shitless and shellshocked out there the past couple of seasons. Look back to the opening week game against the Rams. He was surgical in the 1st half and they were able to keep the Rams in check. As soon as the Rams came out and started scoring, Carr just folded and tossed up horrible INTs. Something is wrong with his mentality, that is for sure. He doesn't have any of the swagger he had in 2016 before his leg got broken.

I do not question his toughness but I do question his poise. He's not right upstairs and this tear down of the roster isn't going to help.

 

24 year old WR who you will also have to pay. (1 year left on his rookie deal I think?) I'd rather pay the All-Pro safety. (Of course he's gone now so it doesn't matter.)

 

I think the Cowboys have a believe that they can sign ET in the offseason but they weren’t sure they could sign an elite Wr in offseason. You need to know right now if Dak is good enough to win with.

 

Actually, it's 6 first rounders. Chicago traded their 2019 AND 2020 first rounders for Mack as well as their 2019 6th rounder and 2020 3rd rounder.

 

Even better.

They need to get rid of Carr to Jacksonville to get there pick.

It will be a quick rebuild.

 

3 first rounders next draft (Own, DAL, Chi)
2 first rounders 2 drafts from now (Own, Chi)

But in 2020 they have to swap their 2nd rounder for Chi's 1st.